Members Eagle117 Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 I've been messing around with the Alesis iO Dock and GarageBand on the iPad lately. I did two recordings of the same progression, with one being my Two-Rock mic'd and the other being GarageBand. The playing isnt meant to show off... it's more just something simple for your ears to hear the details. In the forums that I posted this in only about 25% have guessed right. Can you tell which recording is the amp and which one is GarageBand? [video=youtube;258tfdd82Fk] EDITMaybe these will help. The first one is the amp sim I built in GarageBand & the second is my Two-Rock TS1. GarageBand[video=youtube;LbJ9zAgWWtU] Two-Rock TS1[video=youtube;XUUIAatv1sA] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 I can't tell and honestly don't care whether I can or not. I like the tone of the first version better. I like your guitar playing and the song, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eagle117 Posted August 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 I can't tell and honestly don't care whether I can or not. I like the tone of the first version better. I like your guitar playing and the song, by the way. Thank you for the kind words... glad you liked it! I'll leave this up for a day or two before posting which take is the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 18, 2011 Members Share Posted August 18, 2011 Cool. I definitely like the first guitar sounds better than the second, and naturally, I'm hoping that it's the amp/mic model. I get a good sound out of my Vox ToneLab going direct, but I still prefer micing my cabinet, preferring the sound. That said, I've heard some really good sounding guitars recorded DI, and for chunky or metal closed-miced sounds, it's impossible for me to tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CME Posted August 18, 2011 Members Share Posted August 18, 2011 Through my cheap computer speakers they sound identical. I'll listen later on my cans and see what I hear. But I'll agree with Ken. Great playing and great tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted August 18, 2011 Members Share Posted August 18, 2011 In the forums that I posted this in only about 25% have guessed right. You know, that's a dead giveaway that people can tell real from fake. They just are confused about which is which--if that makes any sense. I'm not enough of a statistics geek to put it into better words, but clearly people are picking up on something that is skewing the results heavily in one direction. I like the 2nd one better. I don't know if that's because it's a cleaner tone, or because it's the real amp, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted August 18, 2011 Members Share Posted August 18, 2011 You know, that's a dead giveaway that people can tell real from fake. They just are confused about which is which--if that makes any sense. I'm not enough of a statistics geek to put it into better words, but clearly people are picking up on something that is skewing the results heavily in one direction. Correct. If people couldn't discern between the two, it would be 50/50. The fact that they prefer one clip 3:1 is a virtual 100% proof that they can tell a difference, depending on sample size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eagle117 Posted August 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 19, 2011 Maybe these will help. The first one is the amp sim I built in GarageBand & the second is my Two-Rock TS1. GarageBand[video=youtube;LbJ9zAgWWtU] Two-Rock TS1[video=youtube;XUUIAatv1sA] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DVaz Posted August 19, 2011 Members Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think that 1 is the amp, 2 is the garageband, and I like 2 better. *awaits being wrong* no fun not to play though. fwiw, it seems to me that the Sim Vs Real is fast becoming redundant, if its not already. A recording neophyte can generally get better results from a sim than his SM57 and bedroom/garage/basement and more power to them, and for a competent engineer both are perfectly viable depending what sound youre going for, the conditions youre tracking in or the player youre tracking. I do think that the gap widens rather a bit more as the distortion goes up, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eagle117 Posted August 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2011 Alright, I suppose this has been up long enough. If you guessed that take 1 was the amp then you are correct. I believe the low end in take 2 is what fools the ear into thinking it's an amp. I'm just getting into recording and will have to work on better mic placement to capture the low end of the amp. Either way, it's pretty cool that anyone can get such a decent sounding clean tone from a $5 app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DVaz Posted August 20, 2011 Members Share Posted August 20, 2011 Low end of the amp is more often than not in fact low end of the room. Bass trap the room up, place the cab in an anti-nodal point in the room. You get a cleaner, more even low end response that allows you to better control the low end at the amp and through the mic. But I liked 2 because it was smoother and had a nicer chime to it, which I felt fit the track better. Back off the gain/increase volume/do whatever smooths your amp out and try mic placements that are off axis and/or further out on the cone and/or further away from the speaker. Using a large diaphragm condenser can help with getting a fat and smooth sound (compared to most dynamics), and using a ribbon mic even more so (you'll have to completely re-do mic placement for a ribbon though). This is the main advantage of VST amps: I dont think you miced the amp badly (obviously you had a different sound in mind, but I thought it sounded fine, there were no n00b problems with it), but its so much easier to install something, turn imaginary dials till you like it, and play than it is to tune a room, place a cab in a room, choose a mic (or 2 or more), learn how the sound varies in the cubic foot or so infront of a speaker and how different mics interact with those different sounds, place mics, then play. The former is easy, the latter is hard. 9 times out of 10 with a good engineer the amp is going to win, imo/ime, but its much easier for neophytes to get going and get decent sound with sims (and they're much more convenient and normally less expensive as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eagle117 Posted August 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2011 Well, I AM a noob at recording. lol I know absolutely zip, which is probably why I'm so stoked about the ease of use found in the GarageBand app and iO Dock. I get what you're saying about amp sims being the path of least resistance, but sims lack character. I mean, yeah... I can get a decent sound out of a sim, but do I get the "feel" I get when playing my Two-Rock? Not even close, and the feel/character of the amp is such a huge part of my creativity. I also understand what you're saying with the conditions of the room affecting bass response, but I never really looked into using a mic other than the SM57 since they usually run a pretty penny. Did you listen to the other vid of the amp I posted? I feel like I got much better bass response in that one. All I did was put the mic off axis and place an old futon mattress on the wall behind the amp. (Like I said, I'm a noob. lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted August 20, 2011 Members Share Posted August 20, 2011 I posted 16 guitar tracks once. Half real amps, the other eight a Boss GT8 DI'd. Someone posted they had a "Golden Ear" and could tell real amps from sims and multi units. Well they got very few right. Had a guy guess and he guessed 10 of the 16 which was the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 20, 2011 Members Share Posted August 20, 2011 Alright, I suppose this has been up long enough. If you guessed that take 1 was the amp then you are correct. I believe the low end in take 2 is what fools the ear into thinking it's an amp. I'm just getting into recording and will have to work on better mic placement to capture the low end of the amp. Either way, it's pretty cool that anyone can get such a decent sounding clean tone from a $5 app. It is. But as I mentioned before, I like the first one best, noticeably so. I would have been really impressed had the direct sound been the first one, though!!!! I can get a good sound going direct, but so far, I've gotten better sounds micing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eddie Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 I liked the first take better. I can not tell which one was an amp or a modeler, and don't pay much attention to that. I just care about a good sound. Having now read the answer (after listening and typing my opinion) I'll add that:-you could make a similar A/B comparison using the same gear (i.e., using one amp or one modeler and compare 2 different settings) and people will find a preferred sound.-you can get a better tone than the one from Garage Band. I have not used it in years, and always preferred other modelers.-the feel part is tricky, but some modelers are responsive to the player's touch.-just like a person seeks the best recorded sound from an amp, there's a lot to be said about recording with modelers to capture a realistic tone, from setting up the modeler itself, perhaps using impulse responses, additional plugins (e.g., equalizer, reverb), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 I say that #2 is your two rock, and #1 is Garage Band. #2 sounds more organic like it was mic'd, Garage Band sounds better like it has been very well processed. EDIT I stand corrected! Impressive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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