Adding air to cymbals

[frosty55]

I often read about adding "air" to cymbals during tracking. How is this done?

[Lee Knight]

10k shelf.

[WRGKMC]

You probibly read the cymbals of a drum set add air to the "mix" which can consist of

the entire drumset or the whole mix.

 

The word Air is one of those words that many can define differently and not really understand

what it is or how to get it in a mix.

 

To me air is High frequency used in a way to give the mix three dimensionality.

A good Steely Dan recording would be an example that comes to mind of recording with allot of air.

You can hear everything really clear right on up to a triangle clinking in the background. Any instrument

you listen to can be clearly heard.

 

EQing Cymbals can be a big part of getting the high frequencies to hit the HiFi tweeters just right.

But so can EQing all your other parts so the Cymbals are masked by the other instruments in a mix.

 

 

Some of the air comes through Stereo placement and mastering tools and techniques too.

High frequency harmonic synthisizers are a tool often used to enhance the high frequency air as well as

Multiband comps and limiting. With a stereo mixdown keeping the cymbals spread wide can aeally do some

nice things to add air. It does come down to the music and musical arrangement. Some mixes just cant or wont

have allot of air because of the type of mix. Take Heavy metal for example with balls to the walls driven guitars,

Highly comped drums and gritty vocals. The drums may be fairly monoed and there may not be a place to carve out

space in that mix for any air. In other cases with a jazz tune and intimate vocals light cymbals it may be Air City for that kind of mix.

[frosty55]

I have also read that some band was having there music judged by some chap, and he recommended just giving the overheads a touch of reverb. Dont know which reverb or by how much. He said the cymbals were far too dry.

[Lee Knight]

Overheads not only pick up the kit... but the room they're in. If the room is dry, and the production calls for a wetter sound, verb can be nice on them. Hence the comment about "dry cymbals". I'd reach for an IR of a good plate first. This does a couple of things. It adds a nice ambience to the kit, and it sets the cymbals back a bit. If everything in the production has a live and ambient feel with some distance, and the cymbals are right there in your face by either miking too close or a very dry room, set them back with a nice verb.

[frosty55]

The drums I will be recording will go on two adjacent tracks of the reel to reel I will be using. I really have to treat the overheads as theyre getting recorded. I cant treat them after the whole kit is down on tape.

The type of music we do is heavy rock, I suppose.

Any advice chaps?

[WRGKMC]

 

The drums I will be recording will go on two adjacent tracks of the reel to reel I will be using. I really have to treat the overheads as theyre getting recorded. I cant treat them after the whole kit is down on tape. The type of music we do is heavy rock, I suppose. Any advice chaps?

 

 

Well actually you better treat them when mixing down or you better find a better recording and mixing method.

 

I recorded drums to two tracks for at least a decade or more before I went to 16 tracks and could record the drums to separate tracks.

 

I'd get the best Live balance on the drums as I could get but didnt do much more than balance the drums in a stereo mix and channle EQ them on a mixer.

Everything else is done mixing as has been done in the traditional method forever. Thats where you add most of your effects and get them spiffed up.

You have the ability to mix those tracks with a judgemental ear throgh fgood monitors so you know what affect those adjustments are having on the

mix, plus you mix the drums to the other instruments which is very different than mixing them solo.

 

Unless you been recording for a long time and know all the tricks, you shouldnt be doing much to the drums

"tracking" other than some minor EQing and panning to make them sound like a real live set.

 

During mixing you would use a high quality EQ, a multiband Comp and and maybe some reverb.

thats followerd by brickwall limiting of the whole mix.

 

The multiband is the key to getting the drums pumping in a stereo mix. Without it they will sound like amature

garbage cans and cardboard boxes. The Multiband takes several different bands of frequencies and compresses

each band separately. The bottom end with the kick and boom from toms will get compressed separately form the

snare ride and crash and high hats. This brings the drums up front so they compete with the guitars and bass.

 

Recording a goos stereo mix and tracking well really needs a live setup like playing out where you have a

PA to use to adjust the drum mix through and can mix the drums to ther other instruments, or a controll

room where you're hearing everything through the monitors instead of live in the studio.

 

The best you can do without those options is to have really good isolation headphones to dial up the sound.

Most arent good enough to get a really good mix and you have to do allot of trial and error to get it right,

but you do what you got to do, when you got to do it and hope for the best.

[Lee Knight]

Do you know how great a two track recording of drums can sound? Pretty great. Do you really need to be stereo? The Black Keys' latest is mono drums. Don't even notice except it sounds really cool. You may only need one overhead and one kick mic. Point the over head at the snare. Cymbals too dry? move the mic up.

 

Reaching for black boxes is a mistake when the nature of your challenge lies in where you sticking your mike. Two track? I'd want control over my kick before I'd want stereo overheads. Using a small diaphragm condensor over the kit is going to sound as great as your drums sound. Do your drums sound great? Are they tuned? Is the drummer bashing the cymbals? Is the sound too washy or too tight? What's the room sound like anyway?

[frosty55]

Surely two tracks for drums is the only way to get seperation isnt it?

How would you pan the kit otherwise? Kick and snare to centre, toms and overheads panned accordingly left and right.

I thought that was the best way...

[WRGKMC]

When you stand on a stage with drums right in front of them, drums have a stereo spread.

if you stand in the audiance, drums sound as mono as any guitar amp. Its all in the perspective

of the recording. If you want the drums to sit in a mix from a live perspective you dont want a wide

stereo spread in fact kick and snare are nearly always mono. Sometimes you widen the toms up a little

maybe 30% and the cymbals 50%. Any more and you wind up planting them over top of your other instruments

in the mix. If you have guitars on the left and right , having cymbals crash over tham can be a nusence.

 

It does depend on the typs of music though. Allot of rock stuff have the drum power centered in the mix.

Jazzier stuff may use the stereo spread to fill drums in dead air gaps. All of this takes time to learn how to

do wisely mixing so all I can tell you is theres more than just drums in a mix, and they shouldnt hog all the

stereo space nor all the frequency bandwidth. You need to save space for your other instruments.

 

You can record them so that sound as full as a complete band, but you're going to trim most of that out mixing.

If you have a wide stereo field, you'll wind up narrowing it down with panning and EQ's so thay dont hog the stage.

 

You also want to be sure the drums sound great in mono setting your mics before panning stereo.

You do have phase issues with mics. If the mics arent at the correct distance from each other you have

wave cancellation and dead sounding drums. If you pan before getting the mics in phase, it has bad

consequences mixing and getting things to sound right. You should google up drum micing techniques

because its the most important item along side drum tuning you need to deal with.

 

Heres some micing info you should be aware of.

http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_micsmusicstudio_ea.pdf

 

http://www.recordingeq.com/articles/321eq.html

 

http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/recording/6-stereo-miking-techniques-you-can-use-today/

 

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/houses-of-worship-audio-sound-systems_Tips-And-Tricks_Mic-And-Mix-Live

 

http://recordinghacks.com/2010/04/03/drum-overhead-microphone-technique-comparison/

 

http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/mictrouble.htm

 

http://www.homestudiocorner.com/the-31-rule/

[beatpoet]

 

It does depend on the typs of music though. Allot of rock stuff have the drum power centered in the mix. Jazzier stuff may use the stereo spread to fill drums in dead air gaps.

 

 

Obviously every production is different, but generally I'd have thought that jazz drums would be roomy and distant, with close-miked rock drums being spread wide? (oo-er!).

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Do you know how great a two track recording of drums can sound?

 

 

Beautiful, direct, powerful, that's how.

[WRGKMC]

 

Obviously every production is different, but generally I'd have thought that jazz drums would be roomy and distant, with close-miked rock drums being spread wide? (oo-er!).

 

Big guitars need big space in the stereo spread was my point. If the drums are panned into thir area, they get masked, or the guitars get masked. But there are as many variations as the sands on the beach when it comes to mixing. When I meant jazz I meant modern jazz, not traditional acoustic jazz. Listen to some Steely Dan stuff and you'll understand what I mean about drum spreads filling air gaps.

[frosty55]

 

Big guitars need big space in the stereo spread was my point. If the drums are panned into thir area, they get masked, or the guitars get masked. But there are as many variations as the sands on the beach when it comes to mixing. When I meant jazz I meant modern jazz, not traditional acoustic jazz. Listen to some Steely Dan stuff and you'll understand what I mean about drum spreads filling air gaps.

 

So you say guitars and drums shouldnt occupy the same space, frequency wise?

If toms are panned to 10 o clock and two o clock, then where would the guitars be panned to?

[CME]

Guitars would then be panned hard L/R. Multi-tracked. Maybe even multi-mic'd and multi-amped. Just depends on your time, patience, and sound you're going for.

[WRGKMC]

The same space and the same frequency in that space is what causes masking.

You can overlay instrments in the same field without a problem. Any good mono

recording is an example of that and all mixes should be checked for mono capibility.

The difference in a stereo field with rock drums is they push allot of air.

Keeping the kick and snare center means both left and right speakers push together.

Cymbals can be spread wide because their frequencies are above a midrange guitar.

Toms are trickey. Its all in the way they are tracked and EQed. If they have allot of skin

and stick, then the midrange from them shouldnt be an issue panning them. If you have allot

of Tubular resonance that they can sap a guitar right out and mask it. If you want the toms to be heard

well, I find in a normal stereo fiels, toms sound good with around a 30% spread. Guitars can be 40~75%

I rarely pan a guitar to its extremes. If I do I usually have a second track with a time based plugin like reverb

panned more center to give it three dimensionality.

 

Remember, Music isnt just a flat screen left and right like stick figures in a picture. A good picture has shaddows

from light to give the imaged depth and make them appear to be three dimensional. In sound we use ambiance

in place of shaddows to give the music depth to trick our ears into thinking the sounds are close or near the same way

our ears hear things close and near in their natureal enviornment.

 

If you hear drums up close as a musician standing on a stage and thats the sound you think will be appealing to an audiance,

go for it. Remember though, You really need the ability to step off the stage and see the band out front. Out listening to a band

live you hear the vocals loud and centered. Most PA's run mono. anything miced is usually mono or at least realistic to the listener.

Unmiced, the guitar amps will be to the sides of the drumset. The drumset wont be filling the whole stage.

In a smaller club, sitting close to the band, the drums will sound wider and bigger but the guitars will usually be wider still.

 

As many say here, there are no mixing rules, but theres nothing stopping you from producing natureal mixes either.

Most will judge your ability to create a natureal mix. Then breaking the rules and doing oddball things can be considered

creative artwork within that soundscape. For a beginner, I think this is the best approach vs doing something oddball

and trying to make it sound normal.

 

You do have to experiment though. theres nothing stopping your from putting the drums and bass all on one side,

then the guitars on the other. Older recordings when stereo was new used all those techniques. Listen to earlay Beatles,

Doors, and many others and you'll hear all kinds of mixes that work well.

Most have a center of focus for the ears between those parts.

[CME]

Paul McCartney still does the drums panned to one side sometimes. Don't remember the exact track, but on chaos and creation there's a track with drums to one side piano on the other. Both are playing a pretty straight 1/8th note beat. Sounds really cool. Gonna dig out the cd. Be right back.

 

Well fine line was the song I was thinking of, but the drums aren't to one side. My memory must be failing me lol. Maybe it was some Beatles stuff I was listening to when I first heard the drums on one side.