Members frosty55 Posted January 21, 2012 Members Share Posted January 21, 2012 Does anyone know of any graphs or such like showing the effect of values of "Q"?Such as recommended eq for reduction of frequencies regarding the recording of kick drum.Certain frequencies apparently need to be cut to avoid that "cardboard" sound. They often give a frequency range and a "Q" value for it, but never say to what extent the full range that needs to be cut to prevent that "cardboard" sound. They recommend, for instance, cutting between 200 hz and 450 hz. Unless you have a top notch graphic equaliser, having a parametric equalizer, putting a certain "Q" value on the EQ, must surely be guesswork, isnt it?Any thoughts chaps?What "Q" settings stand for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted January 21, 2012 Members Share Posted January 21, 2012 Does anyone know of any graphs or such like showing the effect of values of "Q"?Such as recommended eq for reduction of frequencies regarding the recording of kick drum.Certain frequencies apparently need to be cut to avoid that "cardboard" sound. They often give a frequency range and a "Q" value for it, but never say to what extent the full range that needs to be cut to prevent that "cardboard" sound. They recommend, for instance, cutting between 200 hz and 450 hz. Unless you have a top notch graphic equaliser, having a parametric equalizer, putting a certain "Q" value on the EQ, must surely be guesswork, isnt it?Any thoughts chaps?What "Q" settings stand for what? Yes- "Q" designates whether the width of the frequency that you're working with is wide or narrow, and the higher the number is, the wider the band is. So, for example, say you're cutting about 3 db of 400hz from your kick drum- if you select a wide Q, you'll also be reducing other surrounding frequencies (like 350 hz and 450 hz), and on a visual graph it would look kind of like an upside-down half circle (for lack of a better "word-picture"!). This is usually a more natural-sounding EQ, but if there is a very noticeable resonant frequency that you need to get rid of, a narrow band might be better. Most plug-in EQ's have a graphic display to help you visualize what you're adjusting anyway, but it's good to know what's going on... And, as we all say: "Use your ears.":) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phait Posted January 22, 2012 Members Share Posted January 22, 2012 http://howtoeq.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/q-factor-and-bandwidth-in-eq-what-it-all-means/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Put a copy of Voxengo Span in your main bus. then when you solo a track it will let you see the actualfrequencies being created by the track. Then when you use an EQ, you can target the frequencies moreprecisely. This is a good visual aid for helping a a beginner until his ears become tuned to hearing the various frequencies on their own. With live drums you wind up with more issues involving phase and those should always be addressed firstbefore ever touching an EQ. Keep in mind, an EQ is a band aid. You should be focusing on capturing the sound you need with the mic. Tuning a drum for the right resonance is hands down the best way to get great tone over using an EQand you arent going to fix major tone and pitch problems with a track EQing it. An EQ can only boost orcut frequencies that exist. It cant generate frequencies that dont. If a frequency doesnt exist of is very weak, all you do is boost background noise with an EQ. When you do a recording and you analize a track mixing and find it lacking, go ahead and do what you can with anEQ to fix it but take notes on the frequencies you boost or cut. Then for your next recording, work on getting those frequencies from the source. You can run a frequency analizer in its monitor mode and test the incoming signalwhile tuning a drum and try an improve its responce before tracking. The goal is to not have to use audio tools just because you have them, its just the opposite. The better you can get your audio to sound tracking, the less plugins you needmixing which remove sound quality by using them. This is of course harder to do because you haveto do allot of tweaking, and you do wind up having equipment limitations with mics, preamps, room reflection and drum tuning etc. You will reach limits with those tools and from tehre on you use whatever audio tools you havebut many dont even begin to investigate all those options and go straight to twiddleing knobs. Thay may get luckeyand stumble upon a good tone, but it cant compare to someone who knows all the shades of tone, and phase issues mics cause especially with drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes- "Q" designates whether the width of the frequency that you're working with is wide or narrow, and the higher the number is, the wider the band is. You have this backwards. Higher Q is more selective. "Q" is short for "Quality". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 You have this backwards. Higher Q is more selective. "Q" is short for "Quality". You're right- I always get the number side of things confused. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Certain frequencies apparently need to be cut to avoid that "cardboard" sound. They often give a frequency range and a "Q" value for it, but never say to what extent the full range that needs to be cut to prevent that "cardboard" sound. I have never seen suggested EQ settings with a numerical Q value. I see "high Q" or "low Q" or "narrow Q" or "wide Q." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 I have never seen suggested EQ settings with a numerical Q value. I see "high Q" or "low Q" or "narrow Q" or "wide Q." Most parametric EQ's will have an adjustable numeric Q value. I use the Sonar Sonitus EQ for most stuff and it has one for each of the 5 bands. It would suck badly if you couldnt adjust the Q value and only had a high medium and low value.Plus creating a steep rolloff when used as a high or low pass filter wouldnt be adjustable without it. The OP did say Graphic EQ though which is a different animal. It has sliders for each band and they may be set to a specific Q values. I have one that allows you to adjust the width and number of sliders. Its overkill though and a major CPU sucker so I dont think I've used it more than a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted January 23, 2012 Members Share Posted January 23, 2012 Most parametric EQ's will have an adjustable numeric Q value. I use the Sonar Sonitus EQ for most stuff and it has one for each of the 5 bands. It would suck badly if you couldnt adjust the Q value and only had a high medium and low value.Plus creating a steep rolloff when used as a high or low pass filter wouldnt be adjustable without it. Yeah, you really didn't understand my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members veracohr Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 You're right- I always get the number side of things confused. Thanks! And to further confuse the issue is the fact that some manufacturers replaced the 'Q' knob with a 'bandwidth' knob, on which a higher number is indeed a wider bandwidth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members veracohr Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Does anyone know of any graphs or such like showing the effect of values of "Q"?Such as recommended eq for reduction of frequencies regarding the recording of kick drum.Certain frequencies apparently need to be cut to avoid that "cardboard" sound. They often give a frequency range and a "Q" value for it, but never say to what extent the full range that needs to be cut to prevent that "cardboard" sound. They recommend, for instance, cutting between 200 hz and 450 hz. Unless you have a top notch graphic equaliser, having a parametric equalizer, putting a certain "Q" value on the EQ, must surely be guesswork, isnt it?Any thoughts chaps?What "Q" settings stand for what? Personally I wouldn't recommend going by particular values of Q and cut or boost. I suggest reading recommendations on frequency ranges, then choose the value of Q, amount of cut or boost and best center frequency by sweeping around in that suggested area. Exact values will depend entirely on the recording: the exact instrument, how it's played, how it's recorded, etc. Also, forget graphic EQ's for 'surgical' work; parametrics are your friend there. My suggestion, until you get fluent in EQ-ese, is this (not chronological, consider all at once): Frequency: start with a suggested range, but let your ears choose the best center frequency.Q: high Q means narrow bandwidth; best for removing unwanted resonances. Low Q means wide bandwidth; best for overall spectral shaping.Cut/boost: don't follow numeric suggestions. Let your ears choose the best value. One suggestion you can follow is: you can cut a lot more than you might think from an instrument sitting in a busy mix. If you have a sparse mix, go easy, but busy mixes often benefit from reducing frequencies from an instrument that just get buried in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 below is a screen shot from my cubase le 4 on the left you see the rider with the normal eq view, you can see the values and set them, but you don't see what they do in the mixer on every channel, there is this little "e" button, which opens the window in the red circle below. there you have insert efx, eq and send fx in one window, together with the fader from the mixer. i just lately (a couple of months ago) found out that this window exists and it does help to understand what the eq settings are and how they affect the frequency band. worst example, the cubase default q value is 0.2 which is a very very wide setting, increasing or cutting with this q value, does much more than one would expect. trying with this q value to find bad frequencys on a track does not work cause going up or down the frequency band with this q will always affect more than 2 octaves of the instrument. you may not want to use the eq from cubase out of the box, but playing around with it does help to understand how cubase interprets the q value and what q values mean in general. for those not using cubase i hope at least my screen shot does explain a bit for you. and at the end, there is no general right or wrong q setting, it all depends on how it sounds and if it sounds good. always using wide settings only does not work as small band settings only do not work either PS: there is one downside, my laptop has only a resolution of 1024x768 and there the same cubase version does not show the eq graphic view, only insert and send fx when pressing the "e" button, so if your computer also has only a small resolution, you might not see this either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 And to further confuse the issue is the fact that some manufacturers replaced the 'Q' knob with a 'bandwidth' knob, on which a higher number is indeed a wider bandwidth. That's what I was referring to- I knew there was a bigger # somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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