Members MrJoshua Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 I've been mixing ITB with Pro Tools, currently using an HD|Native system. I have a Command 8 so at least I have some faders to get my hands on, but I still miss mixing on a console. It was just more fun. Maybe that's more due to looking back fondly on my late teens and early twenties than anything else, but I'd rather move faders than a mouse any day. So, I'm sort of eyeballing a Toft ATB. I have plenty of channels of I/O already (30 channels of A/D and 26 channels of D/A - one Lynx Aurora 16, one Avid Omni, one Apogee Rosetta 200 and the A/D card on my Focusrite ISA-428 - you can't tell I've put this together one piece at a time over several years, can you? Ha!) So the only costs would be the console itself plus cabling and another patch bay and a desk to hold it, unless I'm missing something. I guess my question is, am I looking the right direction with this? I mean, this is basically a hobby studio. I make a little money with it but it would probably take me 3-4 years to make enough to break even on the cost of the Toft with associated equipment, unless I was to have zero maintenance or equipment replacement costs in the interim in which case I could probably recoup the cost in about two years or so. This is not my day job, is what I'm saying. I can afford it, but it wouldn't be pocket change. But I think my enjoyment factor would go a lot higher, and on top of that I think my mixes would sound better purely from a better work flow. I may be fooling myself on that one, though. So, what are your opinions? Am I just suffering from a case of GAS, or are there valid arguments to be made for moving to a console? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The dman Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 If it inspires you and it's not going to be a financial burden I say go for it. I personally like the sound through a decent console better than ITB and I love the workflow of just reaching up and turning knobs. You do lose the convenience of just calling up a project and hitting play but if you were just using it for summing stems at mix time it should be pretty straight forward, the more you introduce outboard gear and use the console for mixing the more you have to document the details where Itb gives you the convince of saving it walking away from it for 2 weeks and coming back to it instantly. When I mix full Otb I do find I have to be more thorough and decisive when mixing for obvious reasons. The beauty of it is you'll have more options to pick from from Itb, Stems, Full Otb or hybrid, for example sometimes when I mix Itb I might run a track through a console channel with or without hardware... direct out the channel back to the DAW print it and be done. But let me warn you ...next year you'll be back posting...Need recommendations for a decent hardware compressor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 I've heard of manufacturing problems with the Toft consoles that still have not been resolved (something like 5 years after launch!) I'll see if I can find those details. If it increases your enjoyment of mixing and you can afford it, then go for it. I've not done a console mix in a long time, but I did try mixing with an external summing box in PTHD and the results did not justify the hassle or the expense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted April 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Hm, recall is a good consideration - track sheets are one of those things that get a little glossed over in memory, haha. It's a lot easier to save a PT session and come back to it later than it is to write everything down and reset it when you come back. I guess there's no such thing as a perfect solution. At least, not in the hobby price range. Even when it's a fairly serious hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted May 8, 2012 Members Share Posted May 8, 2012 this is the desk that has my interest http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?CatId=GSSeries&ProductId=GSR24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted May 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 9, 2012 Oh, nice. That actually looks pretty sweet! And I do like G&L mixers - I have a MixWiz 16:2 in my live rig, and a friend owns a studio with a large G&L console that sounds very good. I'm going to have to look at that pretty closely. And it has a motorized fader option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KillerV Posted May 9, 2012 Members Share Posted May 9, 2012 The whole console thing is a two-edged sword for me. My word, how I love hardware. As much as I would love to believe that plugins=hardware, I've eaten my words everytime I start up a great piece of hardware. Even my wife can hear the difference easily. I got my first "real" console last year - a modded/upgraded/recapped 70's Yamaha "JapaNeve" PM1000. It's a great "starter" console in that it's not too daunting for a guy who "grew up" on DAW's. I love tracking with it and bands love that I have a big ol' board with faders and knobs here. It sounds amazing and, combined with my hardware comps and EQ's, it's a dream come true. BUT Recalls are a very real part of my life. These days I work on 150+ tracks per year and I need to be able to do recalls fast. This completely screws up the whole dream of doing everything with my console/hardware in my world. I need to be able to tweak 3.5 KHz on the Hammond B3 (as I had to on a recall today) without it becoming a job that takes hours, otherwise I would either have to charge double of what I do and see much less of my wife and kids. I've come to the conclusion that, at least for now, the best way is to get as much as I can right in tracking with my hardware. This was scary at first as it means that I need to commit 100% to my vision before I even start. I'll use a bit of hardware during mixing where it really counts, but I'll print the channels and/or make notes and recall sheets like a madman. Otherwise I've narrowed the plugins I use down to a few that I still like and gives me a bit of a similar "vibe". I might change all this at some or other time (probably to the hardware side) but for now all my clients are happy and their work gets enough airplay. This is the stuff you have to figure in when you have to decide about getting a console. It's a completely different way of working, but a very nice one. Just be prepared for what comes with it. Don't even think about it unless you have a couple of channels of good hardware compression. That said, in your situation - mostly a hobby - it does seem very feasible. There really is nothing like putting your hands on a nice board. A word about the Tofts: A friend of mine considered getting one for his studio but was completely put off by noise-specs and the fact that there does seem to be some issues that aren't getting resolved. I don't have any 1st-hand experience with the Tofts, though. Heard great things about the EQ. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I like big analog consoles, and some of the new ones from brands like Toft and A&H have some nice features to allow them to more readily integrate with modern DAW systems. However, I really prefer (actually "need") full recall, so I have been using digital boards for the last ten years or so, and I've been pretty happy with my Yamahas. I hadn't heard about the issues with the Toft. I'd love to hear more about that if you guys have the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 2, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 2, 2012 I love what most people don't seem to. ITB. No controller, just a mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 So, what are your opinions? Am I just suffering from a case of GAS, or are there valid arguments to be made for moving to a console? I think you just have GAS but check out some of Brandon's posts on moving to a Toft console at www.recordingreview.com. http://forum.recordingreview.com/content/before-you-buy-console-168/http://forum.recordingreview.com/content/so-you-really-want-console-part-2-169/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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