Rookie questions

[stjames]

I am looking to start recording myself and I have looked around but I figured I should come here and ask my questions. I want to start with at least some sort of 8 track interface so I can record drums, weird stereo guitar setups, vocals, keyboards, and anything else I want to add on top of a song, so I want something versatile. So far I am mostly leaning toward getting a zoom r16 just because it seems easy to use, it has 8 tracks, it's affordable, and it can be mobile. The only thing I am worried about is the sound quality, which is where my questions start...

 

If I am not happy with the sound quality of the unit, could I just get a separate preamp and satisfy me or would I just need a better interface?

 

Can I use use the r16 as a mixer if I want to use it live?

 

What is a good basic affordable software that a first timer can work with (I have garage band experience but that's about all)?

 

What is the general consensus on the zoom r16s? Are there any other 8 input interfaces you would recommend?

 

If there are any links of posts that discuss these sort of topics I would love the links.

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

If I am not happy with the sound quality of the unit, could I just get a separate preamp and satisfy me or would I just need a better interface?

 

 

Sticking with generalities here for a moment, even if a unit has line input jacks on it, it doesn't automatically mean you bypass the preamp section when you use them. Also, even if they do bypass the preamp, the line inputs are still subject to the A/D conversion process. In other words, best case, you might be able to improve the sound quality by using "outboard" mic preamps, but that won't affect the converters, which also contribute significantly to the "sound quality" of the unit.

 

 

Can I use use the r16 as a mixer if I want to use it live?

 

 

I suppose you could, although I think it would be somewhat limited as a main live mixer for a band. I'm only superficially familiar with that particular unit though, so you'd really need to research it further to be sure. But even if you "could", I probably wouldn't recommend it. It looks like it would be fine for doing live recordings (IIRC, you can "cascade" two of them for 16 tracks of simultaneous recording / 32 of playback), but you'd have limited (to no) access to the EQ, aux sends, etc. that you'd typically be regularly using in a live setting.

 

 

What is a good basic affordable software that a first timer can work with (I have garage band experience but that's about all)?

 

 

I'm assuming you're a Mac user? On the Mac, you can get started with Garageband. Logic is very similar and not all that expensive, and it makes a very (ah-hmmm) logical upgrade for people who are familiar with Garageband since you can build on what you're already familiar with.

 

I have not tried it lately on the Mac, but Cockos Reaper is a very popular shareware DAW app. It's non-expiring, non-crippled software - you "demo" the whole package, the actual software, not a crippled version of it that won't save files, etc. At $60 for a personal use license, it's quite affordable if you decide you want to continue using it, but even if you don't do the right thing and pay for it, it doesn't stop functioning.

 

 

What is the general consensus on the zoom r16s? Are there any other 8 input interfaces you would recommend?

 

 

I haven't tried it or heard how it sounds, but based on the little I've heard / seen / read about it, it looks pretty interesting. It seems like there was a lot of thought put into making it versatile and useful in a broad range of tasks - live / stand-alone multitrack recorder, DAW control surface, 8 channel computer audio interface... that's a lot of flexibility for $399.

[TimOBrien]

 

I have not tried it lately on the Mac, but Cockos Reaper is a very popular shareware DAW app.

 

 

Phil, I was a Reaper user on WinXP and just recently moved over to an i5 quad-core iMac.

Reaper works just fine there and I've been very happy.

(The license allows you to run BOTH versions bytheway....)

[CME]

I have used both reaper and pro tools. I love pro tools but if I was just starting out it's hard to beat reapers features and cost.

 

As far as interfaces that I think your be interested in, I'd def look at a M-audio 2626 and anything by RME or MOTU that catches your eye. And since you're on a Mac I will very highly recommend a Metic Halo 2882. Just make sure to get an expanded model (may also be stated as having a 2D card). If you're patient you can get them used for around $1000. They can most definitely be used as a live mixer. Plenty of built in DSP. They have rock solid drivers and sound fantastic. Can't say enough good things about Metric Halo's entire product line.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Phil, I was a Reaper user on WinXP and just recently moved over to an i5 quad-core iMac. Reaper works just fine there and I've been very happy.

 

That's good to know - thanks!

 

It's been a while since I've tried it, so I just D/L it and will give it a try on my shiny new quad core i7 MBP.

 

One of the main issues I've had with Reaper in the past doesn't apply as much to someone who is just starting out. I've invested considerable time and brain cells trying to commit as many Pro Tools keyboard commands to memory as I could, and I'd rather not have to learn a whole new set. It would be nice if you could map your own commands to specific tasks in Reaper, and then create a PT mapped command setup / template to make the transition easier.

 

Another thing that really put me off is the menus. They were pretty unorganized, and it took way too long to find stuff. The layout and overall look didn't knock me out either, although I know it can be skinned. I am a big fan of using control surfaces, and they're pretty important to me when I mix. Last I checked, that's not really supported in Reaper either. Plus, I have a ton of Pro Tools RTAS / TDM plugins that won't work in Reaper.

 

But still, I know a LOT of people who are really happy with it, and I'm a big fan of the way they work things on the Honor System - that speaks well for them IMO, and for their faith in their product. Since it is free to try, I feel great about recommending it. Even though it has yet to win me over, it only costs a bit of bandwidth and time for someone to check it out for themselves and make up their own mind.

 

(The license allows you to run BOTH versions bytheway....)

 

Again, I didn't now that - but it further supports the point that they're more than fair with the licensing.

 

I do have one quick question for you - which version of Reaper are you running? Are you running the 32 bit version, or the 64 bit beta? Any recommendations for me? I'll be running it on a 15" 2.2Ghz quad core i7 MBP with 16GB of RAM and running OS 10.7.4. Since I just got this computer, I think I qualify for the free upgrade to Mountain Lion when it ships, but I will definitely be waiting on that until I see things stabilize in terms of compatibility with Pro Tools and other apps.

[stjames]

Thanks for all the great responses. You all have been really helpful so far and I think I am on the right track. Instead of going for the r16, I am pretty sure I just want to spend the money on a decent interface. Reaper looks pretty great for me but I think I will want to get in to Pro Tools eventually. Can Pro Tools and Reaper work with any interface or just certain ones?

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

Can Pro Tools and Reaper work with any interface or just certain ones?

 

 

That's an excellent question! The answer is, yes, both applications will work with the vast majority of interfaces that are currently on the market. The main thing you want to make sure is that the interface supports ASIO drivers.

 

Older versions of Pro Tools - prior to version 9 - required the use of Digidesign / Avid hardware, but since Pro Tools 9, it's been opened up to interfaces from third party companies.

[CME]

Hey Phil. I'd definitely try the 64-bit version. You can have both 32-bit and 64-bit on the same system. I haven't really put it through it's paces to know which one is more stable. But you've got the ram so might as well use it.

 

And I totally agree on the Pro Tools thing. I've tried a couple of times to really use reaper. I always get frustrated and go back. I'll admit, that for tracking our church services, it has been solid. I've even had to record 24+ channels to the internal HD, when I accidentally left the external at home, a couple of times without any problems. Now if I could just get used to mixing and editing in it.

[TimOBrien]

 

I do have one quick question for you - which version of Reaper are you running? Are you running the 32 bit version, or the 64 bit beta? Any recommendations for me? I'll be running it on a 15" 2.2Ghz quad core i7 MBP with 16GB of RAM and running OS 10.7.4. Since I just got this computer, I think I qualify for the free upgrade to Mountain Lion when it ships, but I will definitely be waiting on that until I see things stabilize in terms of compatibility with Pro Tools and other apps.

 

 

I started out with the 32bit version (I'm on Lion) and have had no reason so far to bother trying the 64bit version.

As CME pointed out, you can have both versions running on the same machine.

I'm also going to wait a while for the early adopters to shake out any problems with Mountain Lion; my old IT training is to never switch to a new OS until everything's proven to run smoothly on it.

 

My next adventure is putting Win7 on with Parrallels so I can run my Windows-only plugins and programs too....