Are condensers and dynamics "naturally out of phase"?

[mike.sartori]

I was watching this video about the Audio Technica ATM250de, and the guy says dynamics and condensers are "naturally 90 degrees out of phase" but I've found very little info about this online.

 

if it's 90 degrees, hitting the phase button won't do anything, since it's still 90 degrees out of phase.

 

How do you position a dynamic mic and condenser (like close mic'ing a guitar cab) so they are in phase?

 

Here's the video:

[video=youtube;23rFvnuk0ZM]

[Zooey]

I can't find any support for that claim outside of this video. In fact, other reviews I see for the same mic claim that it stays in phase because the capsules of the two mics are aligned on the same plane. If condensers and dynamics really do have that phase mismatch, wouldn't the two capsules be out of phase all the time?

[Davo17]

Would an audio test that reverses phase quickly reveal this?

[WRGKMC]

 

Would an audio test that reverses phase quickly reveal this?

 

 

Yes.

You simply stage two mics the same distance from the source and ping them.

The overlay the two waveforms and see it their positive and negative going waveforms align.

You can also use a dual trace scope on a sine wave source and overlay the signals that way.

Positive and negative pressure on a diaphram are going to produce positive and negative waveforms.

 

If one waveform is going to be as much as 90 degrees out with the other, its going to have to be the result of

a delay in that signal getting to the interface. I see nothing in a condencers preamp circuitry or diaphram design

that would account for that delay. The preamp simply boosts the otherwise weak signal. It does take time for a signal

to pass through an electronic circuit, but I dont see the delay of a preamp, nor the transformers in a dynamic mic

causing a 90 degree shift.

 

So as far as the video is concerned (which I cant view here) someone mis stated something.

Condencers and dynamics are often used on the same source with no phase shift. For two mics

to be out of phase like that, the distance from the source has to be different. If 3' is the rule to have

mics in phase, 1.5' makes them 180 degrees out of phase, and to have 90 degrees one would have to be .75'

farther away than another as an example. Head baskets are different, but you would take that into consideration

aligning the mics diaphrams.

[Zooey]

The claim in the OP is that dynamics and condensers are always naturally 90 degrees out of phase. You can test it with any particular pair of mics, but I don't see how that answers the question in the OP. That question is: Are condensers and dynamics "naturally out of phase"?

[WRGKMC]

They may be reverse polarity, but out of phase, no way.

Its a stupid claim made by a sales pitch with no basis in reality.

Phase is another word for time.

 

If Both diapharams begin to move at the same when struck by sound

the signal they generate occurs at the same time.

 

How can their signals possibly be out of phase?

The preamp built into a condencer is usually a class A amp so its not going to create a phase shift.

you would have to have either a difference in distance or a pre delay added to shift the signal.

Condencers dont contain any kind of memory circuitry.

 

That particular mic is unique. It has two different elements.

 

This is what they say in their add.

 

Multiple Mics with Perfect Phase

Of course, good engineers know that pointing numerous mics at a single source sound is a great way to get huge sounds, but it can often introduce phase issues, resulting in thin sounds. And if there's ever a place that you don't want thin, it's on a kick drum. With the ATM250DE, Audio-Technica has placed the capsules in perfect phase relationship, a feat they claim is practically unachievable with two microphones

 

Thats bull{censored}. Engineers have been adjusting mics to be in phase forever. it may be a handy feature, but it doesnt change the science.

That mic simply has two elements are placed together so they are an equal distance from the source inside the same capsual, thats all.

If an engineer uses two mics and has a 90 degree phase shift he must suck pretty bad. Even an idiot can spot a .75' difference in distance

from the source and hear what that does to the mix if its monoed.