Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted September 16, 2012 Members Share Posted September 16, 2012 I just bought my first ribbon microphone used on Amazon. http://www.ehx.com/assets/instructions/eh-r1.pdf Also, http://www.oktava-online.com/ml52.htm I think it might be defective, but maybe it is just user error I can still return it if needed. I'm running the mic into my EHX 12AY7 Tube Mic Pre, then to my M-Audio Delta 1010. My AKG C2000B condenser works fine through the same cables/path. But the ribbon mic is barely audible with the gain maxxed, yet it distorts at even the slightest bit of air. Is this normal? Or is there something special I need to know about ribbon mics and preamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted September 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 16, 2012 Edit: with the gain maxed and my headphones turned up louder, the signal comes through. But that is significantly more input and output than I need for any of my other microphones (SM57, RODE NTK, EV RE20, AKG C2000b). I tried swapping the EHX mic pre for my Presonus BlueTube DP to see if it was just a bad pair, but the Presonus also needs the gain maxxed. So is this just the nature of ribbon mics? Or this ribbon mic in particular? Is it defective? If it is the nature of ribbon mics, I guess I understand now why they are used for loud cymbal overheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 That EHx mic preamp maxes out at about 50dB of gain. There's probably nothing wrong with that mic except it's not being provided with sufficient preamp gain. Typically I'd recommend a mic pre with at least 60-70dB of clean gain on tap for use with ribbon microphones. Their sensitivity is typically quite low, and they usually need a LOT of gain. As far as wind, a ribbon microphone's ribbon is extremely thin and susceptible to catastrophic damage due to even relatively light wind blows / blasts and gusts. NEVER blow into a ribbon mic, or place it where it will be hit with blasts of air (such as from a drum vent, etc.), and always use a good pop filter whenever singing into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted September 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 That EHx mic preamp maxes out at about 50dB of gain. There's probably nothing wrong with that mic except it's not being provided with sufficient preamp gain. Typically I'd recommend a mic pre with at least 60-70dB of clean gain on tap for use with ribbon microphones. Their sensitivity is typically quite low, and they usually need a LOT of gain.As far as wind, a ribbon microphone's ribbon is extremely thin and susceptible to catastrophic damage due to even relatively light wind blows / blasts and gusts. NEVER blow into a ribbon mic, or place it where it will be hit with blasts of air (such as from a drum vent, etc.), and always use a good pop filter whenever singing into one. Thanks, Phil. Pop filter is now in place. Time for me to find an additional preamp. Any recommendations that would go well with this mic and not put me in the hole? Any experience with this True Systems? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/true-systems-p-solo-ribbon-mic-preamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The True Systems P-Solo Ribbon is a very good preamp. The main downside is that you won't be able to use it for phantom powered condenser mikes without an external phantom power source - it has no phantom power of its own, and since it's designed primarily for use with ribbon mikes, it really doesn't need it. Another product you might want to consider as an alternative is the Cloud Systems CL-Z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted September 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 The True Systems P-Solo Ribbon is a very good preamp. The main downside is that you won't be able to use it for phantom powered condenser mikes without an external phantom power source - it has no phantom power of its own, and since it's designed primarily for use with ribbon mikes, it really doesn't need it. Another product you might want to consider as an alternative is the Cloud Systems CL-Z. The CL-Z is much more affordable, and I can use it with my existing preamps... That's ace The EH-R1 has 300ohms output impedance, so I would set the Z knob somewhere between 1.5k and 3 k ? Thanks for referring me to your article You are an A+ teacher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yes, in general, Cloud recommends setting the impedance at 5-10X the output impedance of the mic (minimum), but the cool thing about the CL-Z is you can set it to where it sounds good - the actual impedance isn't all that important since it's not a fixed value. As you roll that Z knob around, you can really hear how the impedance changes the tone - it's like a EQ. Higher impedance settings will result in a less constrained and more open, full-frequency sound, and the opposite happens at lower impedance settings - the bottom drops away and the levels drop as the signal gets loaded down. Normally you'd open it up to 3K or more with most ribbon mikes to get a full range sound, but sometimes you want to roll off a bit of that oftentimes overabundant proximity effect bass boost that ribbons usually suffer from. The Cloudlifter makes it super easy to dial it in. It's a great product IMO, and a must-have for ribbon mic owners. Oh, and thank you for the kind words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted September 18, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yes, in general, Cloud recommends setting the impedance at 5-10X the output impedance of the mic (minimum), but the cool thing about the CL-Z is you can set it to where it sounds good - the actual impedance isn't all that important since it's not a fixed value. As you roll that Z knob around, you can really hear how the impedance changes the tone - it's like a EQ. Higher impedance settings will result in a less constrained and more open, full-frequency sound, and the opposite happens at lower impedance settings - the bottom drops away and the levels drop as the signal gets loaded down. Normally you'd open it up to 3K or more with most ribbon mikes to get a full range sound, but sometimes you want to roll off a bit of that oftentimes overabundant proximity effect bass boost that ribbons usually suffer from. The Cloudlifter makes it super easy to dial it in. It's a great product IMO, and a must-have for ribbon mic owners. Oh, and thank you for the kind words. I took your advice very seriously and bought one. Very excited. I'll chime in again after I have a chance to work with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Cool - please do! I really think you'll dig it - it's a very cool box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted September 18, 2012 Members Share Posted September 18, 2012 I have the non variable impedance Cloud Lifter, and it's great with my ribbons, and brings a few dynamics to life, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The Cloud Cloudlifters work really well with just about any low-output mic. Unless you have a stunning collection of various mic preamps, I'd consider it a must-have if you use ribbon mikes. If you use a low-output dynamic and have issues with low signal levels, it will work just as well for that too... not to mention the tonal flexibility the Cloudlifter Z's variable impedance gives you. http://cloudmicrophones.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paresh Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 I have Beyer-Dynamic ribbons...had them for 40 yrs. Also very quiet & natural sounding. Any suggestions on how close to the mic to sing? I need to get pretty close but it also sounds that way played bk...maybe the proximity effect?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paresh Posted September 29, 2012 Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 ps - be careful of the phantom power - it can fry the ribbons if you accidentally turn it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted October 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 The CloudLifter arrived last wknd, and I've had a little time to play with it, but not a lot. At the moment I'm still in my honeymoon phase with it. It brings the level of my EH-R1 up to the level of my RODE NTK in my headphones. So I'm using my NTK into an EHX 12AY7 Mic Pre for my acoustic, and my EH-R1 into the CloudLifter and another EHX 12AY7 for voice. So far I'm in love with the mix. Very smooth and balanced sound for laying down quick demos of my songs. Thanks again, Phil, for educating me on how to make it work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Cool - I'm glad to hear you're happy with it! :phil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I have Beyer-Dynamic ribbons...had them for 40 yrs. Also very quiet & natural sounding. Any suggestions on how close to the mic to sing? I need to get pretty close but it also sounds that way played bk...maybe the proximity effect?? Are you using the M160? M260? M500 or...? The Cloud Cloudlifter Z would be a useful addition for you too IMO since it allows you to place the mic as close in to the source as you want (to minimize the amount of room ambience you capture) while still allowing you to control and tailor the low frequency response and tame the abundant low frequency boost caused by the proximity effect. I typically set my vocal microphones in the 6-8" range. Sometimes a bit less (you'll get more bass boost with smaller source to mic distances) and occasionally a bit further away, depending on the sound I'm after. At close distances, if the bass boost is too much, you can try using the mic preamp's high pass filter, or use a HPF plugin on the track after you're finished recording. I often prefer the second approach since it allows me to precisely set the filter's cutoff frequency to best suit the needs of the individual track and situation. Whenever you're using a ribbon mic at close range on vocals it's crucial that you also take steps to protect the ribbon from wind blasts, which can destroy it very quickly if you're not careful. ALWAYS use a good pop filter whenever using a ribbon mic to record vocals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted October 10, 2012 Members Share Posted October 10, 2012 this for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paresh Posted October 10, 2012 Members Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks Phil. They're M 500's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks Phil. They're M 500's. The M500 was designed with "up close", handheld vocal use in mind, so unless it's been modified, it's got foam and a few layers of mesh screen on it to help protect the ribbon. You don't really "have" to use an external pop screen with it, but in a studio situation, I'd probably put a Stedman 3" in front of it anyway, and then stand anywhere from "touching distance" (with my mouth practically touching the pop screen) to a few inches away from the Stedman pop filter. Another nice thing about the M500 is the frequency response. Unlike most ribbons, the Beyer stuff (including the M130, M160, and M260) has a pretty extended frequency response (40Hz-18kHz), so it tends to be more open and less "dark" than a lot of ribbons. Also, and unlike most of Beyer's ribbons (which lean towards flat frequency responses across their range), the M500 has a presence peak. Actually, two of them - at 5kHz and 10kHz. This makes it more similar in response to commonly used live and studio "vocal microphones", and it makes it much more useful when it comes to recording more "modern" sounding vocals, as opposed to more "retro" sounding ones. The M500 also has considerable proximity effect boost below 400Hz, so the closer in to it you get, the heavier the bottom is going to sound. How do you like it on your voice? Have you tried it with any other singers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paresh Posted October 10, 2012 Members Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks I never knew all that. It never really seemed fragile but I only use it in my home studio. I always thought it sounded so natural although it does seem to have more bass when micing close up. I've only used one other singer & the same thing - very natural, ie warm but not adding any color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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