thinking about a summing mixer.. this video peaked my interest

[mistersully]

 

 

the difference is substantial to me

 

 

any of you guys using it, or similar style products?... thoughts?

[IsildursBane]

I suspect that in the 2nd example in the video, they swapped the audio files - in every other example (both in the video and in the hi-res files on their web site), I thought the ITB mix sounded better. In the 2nd video example, what was described as the ITB mix sounded like the outboard summed mix and vice versa.

On top of that, it's not a great mix to begin with, so I don't know how much an outboard summing unit is going to help.

-Dan.

[mistersully]

fair enough

to me, the summed mixes (as they labeled them) sounded better in all three cases ... and obviously by better i mean preferable to me

and it wasn't a close thing either

[IsildursBane]

But to the larger question - the summing amp is, by far, the least important part of your signal chain. If the rest of your gear, and your acoustics, and your monitoring environment, and your skills, and the talent you're working with are all up to snuff, then it might be worth looking into. If not, then don't bother.

-Dan.

[mistersully]

Originally Posted by IsildursBane

But to the larger question - the summing amp is, by far, the least important part of your signal chain.

i just flat out disagree with this

i'm quite happy with the gear i have... my tracking conditions are far from perfect but i've done what i can to get the best out of them (gobos etc)

if after getting the best out of the gear i have, i can run my mix through something that will impove the sound, i see that as a worthy piece of the puzzle

for the record i have a home studio and mainly record myself

[Zooey]

I hear the difference in those examples, too, even the stems run through just four channels of summing (which to me sounded about 90% as good as using 24 channels for some reason). My personal experience with summing is nothing at all like that. I have a 8 channel Dangerous summing mixer that I don't even bother to patch in anymore. It was a marginal difference over ITB mixing, and not even always for the better.

If it really were as easy as patching in four channels and getting a major improvement without even tweaking anything, everybody would own one of those things, but it's not that easy in my experience.

[IsildursBane]

Originally Posted by mistersully

i just flat out disagree with this

How do you disagree with it if you've never used one?

i'm quite happy with the gear i have... my tracking conditions are far from perfect but i've done what i can to get the best out of them (gobos etc)

if after getting the best out of the gear i have, i can run my mix through something that will impove the sound, i see that as a worthy piece of the puzzle

for the record i have a home studio and mainly record myself

I fail to see how what you said contradicts what I said.

My experiences with them echo those of zooey - they can help, but the differences are often pretty subtle. As I said before, there are typically bigger gains to be made elsewhere.

-Dan.

[Mixwell]

I am building myself a silly cool "three layer tier of black boxes" summing rig soon. I'm gonna put it behind my racks. In the Corner. The last piece of the puzzle will be 8-10 modular faders in front of me. All of this gear will be on patch points. I want at least 20 transformers in the signal path, minimum. Right now I am using Passive Summing, [perf board with metal film resistors] with my fun Mic Preamp's as 2-shoot Amplifiers. Sounds mighty fine. I also have some Kustom JCF Audio Summing Node 500 series Modules which are splendid for the affordable dollar.

Makes a nice difference in my studio. I would not discount Analog Summing as Subtle. Dan makes a good point, FOR SURE you want the rest of the details worked out, good tracks to work with, no question -- but I must divert, from his departure from the use of analog summing. Obviously, analog summing is good for analog summing, and not going to replace other skills or gear needed to record and mix decent material. However, if you are more of a MIX engineer, than Analog summing does have its place for several reasons, no matter what you use. Though, you may want to check what your using to see if it fits your aesthetic. Personally, I would rather mix in the box than with SSL gear. I think it sounds like crap. Your Mileage will vary, of course.

The main thing that haunts my dreams with analog summing is the separation you get from the DA converters, at their ANALOG amplifiers. Spectral Content is not as easily masked, as it is when feeding a pair of DA Converters a dense load of info. All that build up creates intermodulation distortion and blurs the perception of the Mix. Decisions are made thereafter. I can mix ITB very easily with great DA converters. No sweat. Do it all the time. Though when I send out stereo pairs, there is something really cool happening that I think is very beneficial to the actual dance of mixing. Its gives you better room and imaging on each element. Much more musical glue between elements too. I find that there is a better sweet spot to work with in analog, even mixing hybrid with the DAW. I feel like I am blending tones together, rather than jamming them through a small hole, where they don't fit, but are forced to. I pretty much make WAY different choices, so its really about your preference than anything else. Personally, I am glad I have both options in my room.

Beyond everything else, sonically, it's a matter of choosing something that sounds good to you, and working through it. You also have to find the right features that matter to you.