Stand out in the cold on purpose.

[Dancebass]

This is something that I've been meaning to bring up. I have a few hook ups here and there that I chose not to use. There are things that I could get for my band through the back door if I leaned on some personal relationships.

 

I currently chose not to do so. Not all the time, sometimes I'll call in a favor, if it seems to be little trouble for my connection. The thing is, I wonder if I'm being a little TOO nice in this area. I see other people pushing themselves all over everyone begging for crumbs and it makes me sick. I just can't seem to "ask" for things from my big connections.

 

I think I would rather just maintain my relationship with them, in the hope that they may decide to throw a bone my way sometimes. I tell myself that I'm biding my time until the perfect opportunity falls into place, then I can go to the connection that I need for that specific shot and they will know that I've never asked them for anything before.

 

Is this the right way, or the wrong way? Am I being too reserved? Should I behave like a jackal? I've seen jackals win before!

 

p.s. I'm talking about big {censored}, not a gig here and there but big {censored}.

[sabriel9v]

Give me the connections, its the way of the starving, opportunistic local artist :wave:

[Dancebass]

Sure. No sweat.

 

Had lunch at the Earl with local rockstar on Saturday. Just home for one day before heading out again. I've known the guy for 15 years. I never mentioned my band, he asked about it at the end of lunch and said he'd try to make it out to a show soon. Good enough for me.

 

When I left the table I was mobbed by local tard musicians telling me I should hit the guy up to help out my band. Turned my f*cking stomach.

[sabriel9v]

 

When I left the table I was mobbed by local tard musicians telling me I should hit the guy up to help out my band. Turned my f*cking stomach.

 

 

You should read the last article that I posted on my blog. I talked about that a little bit. I dunno man, I hate to sound pessimistic and harsh, but imo the Atlanta scene is way more opportunistic, the musicians are more arrogant and overall I preferred Athens music scene way more. But you make the best with what you've got.

 

If you know people and feel it's the right time to showcase your band, then go for it.

[daddymack]

As much as I respect your integrity, the biz is one where it is all about who you know. So if you know people who can do things for you, NEVER be afraid to ask, but ask politely, don't be pushy about it, but also don't be shy about it.

Also by 'know', I don't mean your Aunt's best friends's niece's ex-boyfriend's ex-girlfriend's BFF's second-cousin-twice-removed's wife's uncle's former neighbor's dogwalker's friend. Someone with whom you have an actual speaking relationship, as you described earlier.

If you believe in your project, why shouldn't they?

[paulz]

 

I think I would rather just maintain my relationship with them, in the hope that they may decide to throw a bone my way sometimes. I tell myself that I'm biding my time until the perfect opportunity falls into place, then I can go to the connection that I need for that specific shot and they will know that I've never asked them for anything before. .

 

 

So you "maintain [my]relationship with them in the hope...throw a bone my way"

 

like a hanger-on

so you are more of a sycophant!

"throw me a bone" that's dog behavior and "biding my time" that's scavenging behavior. You know one type of scavenging dog?...a jackal"

 

talk about wanting to puke! at least the other way is up-front about it

 

 

 

Am I serious? hear me out --

what I mean is that above rant is an example of a judgmental, negative way of looking at the behavior

 

You might be thinking something like woah dude! I didn't mean I'm maintaining a relationship and biding my time just so I can use them

 

and that speaks to motive

 

What we're really talking about is intent and sensitivity. Manners, couth and more importantly respect...respect for the person, not just their position or them as a resource

Get in touch with valuing the person, not just what they can do for you.

 

If you are thinking in terms of "leaning on" and "calling in favors" like a chit, if you currently have a clean debt on their sheet and all that...that's all accounting

that makes the relationship just an account.

 

Get back to the spirit of your relationship, it doesn't have to be 'blood brothers' or anything, but does it have a foundation based on something besides exploitation -- Do you like the guy? Do you respect the guy? do you consider him at least a pleasant associate if not a buddy or even a friend?

If his career tanked, would you still have lunch with him?

-- you've known him for 15 years.

 

OK, your band is probably important to you, maybe even a central fixture in your life...and you didn't even mention it to someone you've known for 15 years?!?

 

The guy asked about your band right? from the situation, it sounds like he may have done that because it's part of what you do and he likes you so it's of interest to him...because you value it and he values you. At the very least, he was being polite...again because he values your feelings enough to at least make the effort.

At that's at the very least, he's a musician, you are a musician...

 

 

So trying taking a look at it from the nature of your relationship - I think it's good to be sensitive and respect boundaries -- do that - that's a function of that respect for the person.

 

you don't have to put the lean on or "call in" anything. Ask for a little help or advice or even just an opinion or thoughts -- but do it from the proper spirit ...because you trust and value the person.

At least share with him your musical work...because it's something that you made and he's part of your life on some level (even if you don't get to see him much)

I don't mean as a strategy or an act of manipulation or anything...I mean get in touch with that motivation.

 

 

People help each other out. That's what we do when we are at our best.

 

Take a load of Fannie

Take a load for free

Take a load off Fannie

and you put the load right on me

[Opus Antics]

You ask him for advice, you ask him for his thoughts and input.

 

"What do you think about..."

 

"How did you..."

 

"Did you ever run into this situation..."

 

It allows him to participate in your situation, reminisce about his, give you some advice that might be helpful, and allows him to volunteer help if he's inclined or refrain from going beyond just answering questions and giving input if he's not of the mind to put himself out there in any way more than that.

 

It's respectful, not pushy, let's him know what you're doing. And if you do it right, it's not smarmy or pushy or insincere. Preserves the relationship, but opens the door.

[Dancebass]

Thanks guys. All of that sounds very respectful, which is how I would like to behave. I have picked this dudes brain a million times about things that I don't understand. Things that I would love to one day need to deal with that he's already been through. He just operates on a level 10 times bigger than anything I've ever had to deal with. It's great to have someone tell me what's up the road a bit, in the crazy chance that I may ever face that kind of challenge.

 

He's super excited about sharing that kind of info with me too actually, so that's normally what we talk about. The logistics of operating a band when you get to the level of tractor trailors, buses, and full time employees and such. It's {censored}ing mind boggling!

 

One thing I've learned from the guy is that "personal" relationships matter all the way up to the top. There really isn't that many people currently in the world that actually know how to run and operate a concert tour on a massive scale. They use people they trust, people they have met while opening for bigger bands on their way up. Most of them are all British it would seem, and they know their {censored}! It's like "hey we toured with Motorhead a few years ago and their tour manager was a grizzled old dude that's been with them for 25 years. That guy was a {censored}ing riot! When we go out headlining next spring, let's see if we can get that guy?".

 

We talk about stuff like that. I still don't ask the guy to do {censored} for me though, "hey can you give so and so my record?". I just can't seem to do that.

[daddymack]

Thanks guys. All of that sounds very respectful, which is how I would like to behave. I have picked this dudes brain a million times about things that I don't understand. Things that I would love to one day need to deal with that he's already been through. He just operates on a level 10 times bigger than anything I've ever had to deal with. It's great to have someone tell me what's up the road a bit, in the crazy chance that I may ever face that kind of challenge. He's super excited about sharing that kind of info with me too actually, so that's normally what we talk about. The logistics of operating a band when you get to the level of tractor trailors, buses, and full time employees and such. It's {censored}ing mind boggling! One thing I've learned from the guy is that "personal" relationships matter all the way up to the top. There really isn't that many people currently in the world that actually know how to run and operate a concert tour on a massive scale. They use people they trust, people they have met while opening for bigger bands on their way up. Most of them are all British it would seem, and they know their {censored}! It's like " hey we toured with Motorhead a few years ago and their tour manager was a grizzled old dude that's been with them for 25 years. That guy was a {censored}ing riot! When we go out headlining next spring, let's see if we can get that guy?". We talk about stuff like that. I still don't ask the guy to do {censored} for me though, "hey can you give so and so my record?". I just can't seem to do that.

No, but maybe ask if he happened to be having lunch with so-and-so, if maybe he could invite you along...

[paulz]

You could also ask for the help he can offer as opposed to predeciding what he can do for you...this is especially important if you respect his opinion and feel he's got a better view of that level

 

"the band's going well. I feel our act has matured [i mean in the same way a tree matures and then produces fruit], we have a decently deep repertoire of material, logged performance hours [or whatever you feel - again, not as a justification to him, but just share your thoughts about where you currently are with the guy]. I think we might be ready and I'm thinking about making a push to a larger industry level.

What do you think?

Are we ready? are there holes?

If you think now is the time, any advice or help on who to contact or how to go about contacting them -- I'd really appreciate

After all, we're friends and I try to help you our where I can -- I bang your wife when you are on the road, so when you come home she's not all stressed and cranky"

 

 

OK, maybe that last part isn't helpful (or maybe it is)

 

Just be honest and humble, I don't mean as a strategy like being dishonest is even an option) -- and I don't mean 'humble' like "aw shucks! we aren't so good", I mean honest and humble as getting a sense for where and who you are in the situation.

instead of asking for a favor...Do this specific thing.

ask for general help...I want to go here, can you help me?

 

notice it puts him in the driver's seat, you aren't 'borrowing his truck and changing the radio stations' if that makes sense. It pays attention that you re the subordinate and that he might actually know better than you do what the next step is and doesn't ask of him anything he doesn't want to offer.

It's honest..."yes, I would like your help"

 

Maybe think of it a little like dating.

when you first start there's that nervousness and young guys worry about strategy and approaches and lines and 'how to pick up chicks' and it's not really genuine because they are putting themselves out there and they aren't comfortable with themselves yet.

 

15 years later it's, "would you like to go out to dinner sometime?" and all those implications (yes I think you are attractive, I like spending time with you and would like to do more of that, and...yeah...I really would like to see you in just your panties)

are there and acknowledged and it isn't creepy because you are being honest about it and asking...not trying to manipulatr the situation

 

If you think it's cheap or a bit risque

Please don't say a word I'll just slip away

I am not a man who believes in lies

Like an octopus with big x-ray eyes

 

Adam Ant

[3shiftgtr]

 

He's super excited about sharing that kind of info with me too actually, so that's normally what we talk about. The logistics of operating a band when you get to the level of tractor trailors, buses, and full time employees and such. It's {censored}ing mind boggling! One thing I've learned from the guy is that "personal" relationships matter all the way up to the top. We talk about stuff like that. I still don't ask the guy to do {censored} for me though, "hey can you give so and so my record?". I just can't seem to do that.

 

 

Right now your biz bud is being generous with info and digs hanging with you. And that is a very good thing. Your reluctance to 'use' the contact for bigger opportunities is a good thing.

 

After seeing the fallout from 'pushy' behavior from folks trying to 'make it', and seeing the same results over and over again, I would NOT listen to paulz advice, nor his way of looking at it. Dancebass, you've seen those results too. Over and over again, right? That is where your reluctance is coming from. And rightly so.

 

Asking for help will change the relationship. When you believe in whatever project you are in enough to say to your friend, "I need your help." the subtext has to be "this is the real {censored}, and I'm going down with it." When someone asks you to use your 'connectedness', you only use it if it doesn't put YOU in a negative light, right? If you use the relationship and things don't work out business wise, don't expect a yes when you call for a "let's hang" lunch.

 

This just popped into my head. I remember a female country star, who was kinda B level in the late 90's and early 2k's (gold records and platinum greatest hits), but has a nice career in Canada now, said over drinks at a benefit, "I spent 5 years in Nashville creating relationships. And when I felt I was ready, I went to the mat with them."

 

Sounds like you have a few good friends. And that is worth a TON. When you are ready to "go to the mat" it won't matter that the relationship changes. Cuz you are confident that you will be thanking him for helping you succeed. Your reluctance will disappear.

 

In my opinion, you are acting like a professional.