Members MorePaul Posted July 25, 2005 Members Posted July 25, 2005 I mean, yeah each gen goes through some of it -- but it seems like in the past 1/2 decade it's picked back up a bit Oddly, this time around "home built" guys seem to spring into "boutique" cottage operations about a month after buying a soldering iron (I mean sure, we all may have sold a pal a box or built one for somebody who didn't have electronics chops, but that's a different beast)...which seems a change so anyway, what are your thoughts (no, I don't men to drag you into a mire of the past - maybe we can avoid that)
Members Mr. Donovan Posted July 26, 2005 Members Posted July 26, 2005 I think that the internet has helped a lot with the DIY resurgence. There are some people who keep telling me that computers can do anything that effects boxes can and that stomp boxes are obsolete, but I really disagree with this statement. Rather than replacing stomp boxes, I think computers and the internet have made it easier to find schematics, buy parts, and to sell effects online. I just finished my first year of studying electronics at my local community college. I
Members phaeton Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 I'm curious about how y'all will answer. I was first interested in electronics in the mid-late 80s in Jr. High, but i didn't have any resources to make anything out of it till about 1992. I bought stuff from Radio Shack (back when it was still cool) and built some stuff. Had some fun. Made a couple of pedals, one of which actually worked. Problem was, i was in a vaccum. I wanted to make amps and effects, but all the books i could churn up were about computers and robots. I wrote to a retired Electronics Engineering professor asking for a little direction and advice and he told me that trying to add distortion into an audio circuit was spitting in the face of 70 years of technological advancement, and that using inefficient, obsolete, and expensive vaccum tubes when transistors were available was pure insanity. He didn't slow me down, but eventually all the other problems did. About a year ago I opened up my TS-10 to see how feasible resoldering its jacks would be, and I kinda got bit again. So i figured I'd take quick peek to see what the DIY front was all about. OMGWTFBBQ the Internet. Schematics, how-tos, parts suppliers, kits, forums, people reaching out and holding your hand along the way. I haven't been able to shake it since. Everything that was such an uphill battle so many years ago is practically set at your feet today. If you want to do it, there's no excuse anymore. I think that there are a lot of people who get encouraged into it further because they see fun-coloured Fulltone and Zvex effects going for hundreds of dollars per unit. It looks like a lot of fun to build effects (well, it is) but i think a lot of folks are getting starry-eyed about being an equipment manufacturer. I'll admit it, i went through that phase too. After doing some stuff and sourcing parts and talking with folks in the old SSS and things, it turns out that it's something that would require the right person with the right motivations andability to make a really nice-looking finished product. I could be that person myself, but I bet there are lots that couldn't keep it up, and I sometimes wonder how *long* I could keep it up if i tried. A year? Two years? Then there's the competition. Like said. Everyone's cloning pedals these days and asking too much for them. It's become such a thing that now pedal manufacturers are re-issuing their old pedals. Take a look at Ibanez's lineup these days. They've even contracted someone to start making the JRC4558 again. You can't compete with THAT. I'd like to build a few useable parts here and there and maybe sell a few to offset the costs of my parts purchases and whatnot. Just to perpetuate my hobby. We'll see how it goes. (my $0.02)
Members thankyou Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Bluestrat, yoohoo, calling Mr. Bluestrat. He's a young(er) guy who has built/rebuilt some really interesting stuff. I checked his site some time ago and got inspired to try once again to rehab my first amp - a Silvertone 1484. I think he mentioned using 6V6's instead of 6L6's in a similar amp he rebuilt for a bass head. I'm not savvy enough to really dive into mods, but I'd really like to hear that tube trem again. tHANKyou
Members phaeton Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Bluestrat is a badass.... Ever listen to those amps he built?
Members the otter Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 I had to tune up an SH-101 a few years ago and when I opened it... someting crazy happened, I wanted to start modding it (I didn't). I looked some info on SH-101 mods and got nervous about ruining it...so I started ripping toys apart, I evolved (very little) from there. I bought some books and looked up a ton of info on the net... and suddenly, it wasn't fun anymore. I still want to do some stuff, but in general, it feels like a waste of time (for me). I'm thinking about getting another synth for modding purposes, so who knows?
Members Marcus Dahl Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 You guys are all right. I've been doing this for 4 years. It's not for everyone. There is a lot to it, but if you have good people skills, organization, don't mind doing the same thing over and over again, and skills to make a good looking finished product, then you can do it. Oh and I forgot. Soldering skills and basic tools like a drill press and being able to measure. I enjoy building effects, but at this stage in the game it's not my main income.
Members phaeton Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Definately, Marcus... If you're doing it for fun, go right ahead. If you're doing it to make money, you're probably going to be sorely dissapointed..... Lots of stuff like that, and as long as you understand it you're ok. P.S. i need a drill press It's not a matter of affording one, it's a matter of having the place to put it.
Members Anderton Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Well funny you should bring that up. I just moved to Santa Fe and in the process had to leave most of my lab and old parts behind. But I thought about it...hadn't revised Electronic Projects for Musicians forever...it was time to start over using today's parts, today's techniques. Maybe it's time for EPFM 2006 or something!
Members phaeton Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Maybe it's time for EPFM 2006 or something! D'oh! And i just spent the last couple of weeks researching and hunting down replacements and re-pinning ICs (the CLM6000 Optoisolator being the last one to find).... Sorry to hear you had to leave everything behind Oh well... Here's to the future!
Members Mr. Donovan Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by phaeton If you're doing it to make money, you're probably going to be sorely dissapointed Whatchoo talkin bout? The amplifier repairman in Des Moines that I mentioned charges $65 an hour for his services, and he just has a 2 year associates degree. I met a Electrial Engineer who told me that his fee is $125 an hour. But I bet he has a master's degree. It's like a lot of things, the longer you stay in school, the more money you can make. The musical electronics business may be tiny compared to the electronics field as a whole. But the skills learned in pursuing musical electronics can be transfered to other areas of electronics. I started on this path by reading Craig Anderton's books and if I end up working in a non-music area of electronics I won't be the only one who got his start by reading Electronic Projects for Musicians. A reviewer for EPFM on Amazon said that he became an electrical engineer after reading EPFM. I don't want to sound like I'm some objectivist who cares only about money. Actually, before I started going to school for electronics, I was a biology and psychology major who wanted to get a PhD in neuroscience. After that didn't work out I decided that instead I could make a lot of money and donate it to scientific research. I'm not sure if it will still be to neuroscience though. Lately I have become more interested in alternative energy sources like bio-diesel and solar power. So maybe I could use my electronic skills to persue sustainable energy sources. In conclusion, it's possible to make a lot of money in the electronics field. But if you want to do it just for the love, that's ok too.
Members rog951 Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Donovan My current "career path" as a printed circuit designer sprouted from being a musical electronics hobbyist. Having read EPFM and having built bunches of pedals and preamps 'n' stuff gave me the background I needed. Professionally, I started off really green and worked for cheap, but I learned a ton and advanced over the years and now make a fairly decent wage doing this. The only problem is I haven't been able to do any audio stuff really (not for money anyway). The companies I've worked for haven't been in the audio field. Got to play with lots of lasers though! My current employer is in the wireless arena and I did just get to design a wireless (bluetooth) headset module and basestation. So I got to play with Sennheiser mic/headsets and Neutrik 5-pin XLR connecors. Getting closer! What's really weird is that being obsessed with the guitar during college is probably the main reason I didn't finish my EE degree (although there were a few more hedonistic reasons too I'm sure!). The music jones giveth and hath taken away...
Members offramp Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Anderton Well funny you should bring that up. I just moved to Santa Fe and in the process had to leave most of my lab and old parts behind. But I thought about it...hadn't revised Electronic Projects for Musicians forever...it was time to start over using today's parts, today's techniques. Maybe it's time for EPFM 2006 or something! See, now...I could just kill you, leaving all those parts behind. I'd've at least driven down there some weekend and taken them off your hands for you. Santa Fe, huh? At least your stuff will dry out, now.
Members MorePaul Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Posted July 27, 2005 Cool - I guess my question though is more what you think about the resurgence of the DIY thing as opposed to the DIY thing itself. The hobby enjoyment factor has kina-sorta been the same for decades the comments aboe are great, but a lot of thm don't differ so much from the electronics hobbyist of years ago), but how do you think it plays out these days in terms of things like (just a couple of examples) -the "oh, I can just buy it" market has changed..making what I want less/more avail -there is the alternative of homebrew DSP -VLSI, suface mount, EOL of certain components, etc has changed the activity how?-the good bad) old days vs the modern stuff like that
Members BLAblablah Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Anderton Well funny you should bring that up. I just moved to Santa Fe and in the process had to leave most of my lab and old parts behind. Hope you kept your DA7!Barry
Members MorePaul Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Anderton Well funny you should bring that up. I just moved to Santa Fe and in the process had to leave most of my lab and old parts behind. But I thought about it...hadn't revised Electronic Projects for Musicians forever...it was time to start over using today's parts, today's techniques. Maybe it's time for EPFM 2006 or something! ah, sometimes that sort of "break" can be jus the thing to clar the cobwebs I hope the fesh place (new house or old?) is bringing in some fresh ar to the old perspective, 'tude, chi, whatever...just spring cleaning for the soul
Members fantasticsound Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by MorePaul Cool - I guess my question though is more what you think about the resurgence of the DIY thing as opposed to the DIY thing itself. The hobby enjoyment factor has kina-sorta been the same for decades the comments aboe are great, but a lot of thm don't differ so much from the electronics hobbyist of years ago), but how do you think it plays out these days in terms of things like (just a couple of examples) -the "oh, I can just buy it" market has changed..making what I want less/more avail -there is the alternative of homebrew DSP -VLSI, suface mount, EOL of certain components, etc has changed the activity how? -the good bad) old days vs the modern stuff like that The fact is there will always be people who enjoy understanding how things work. Most of these people become engineers or technicians of one sort or another, and they feed their thirst for knowledge by tearing things apart and putting them back together. Many times with improvements. These are the kids who are model builders, electronics tinkerers, etc. The only reason music electronics are the projects of choice are because they or their close friends are musicians. They're inspired to see what they can do to recreate or improve the gear they or their friends use. The payoff is in creation. It's another example of the journey being as important, or even moreso, than the destination. You could say the same thing of woodworkers. Sure, you could buy a jewelry box off the shelf for your wife. Or, you could pour your heart and soul into building it yourself. Which do you think will be more appreciated, especially over time? Other than that, Mr. Donovan hit it on the head. The internet. Previous generations of DIY'ers had to put some serious time into research in order to build their own projects. DIY electronics were available, but how many concentrated on guitar pre's and effects? For those of some interest, but little determination, research is where they let interest wane in DIY projects. Only the most determined folks pressed on. With the internet, you can get just about any available DIY info in your hands in seconds. I firmly believe this has exponentially increased the number of DIY'ers in areas that were not represented on TV, prior to the spread of the internet. (Let's face it, DIY woodworking tv shows have been on for decades. So have DIY car shows, but to a lesser extent.)
Members phaeton Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Franky says: In conclusion, it's possible to make a lot of money in the electronics field. But if you want to do it just for the love, that's ok too. Right! I wasn't talking about being a full-blown Electronics Engineer. There is plenty of reason to get into that field (and plenty of reasons why I should get into that field.... I was talking about the OP's mention of all the guys these days who pick up a soldering iron for the first time and then within a few weeks decide that they're going to get rich building 'botique clone' pedals one at a time. You could have a lot of fun, learn a lot of stuff, and probably sell a few pedals here and there, but doing that to sustain oneself financially will be a hard road. You can't clone a TS-808 with the same margins and brand recognition that Ibanez is reissuing them for, for example. (Btw i've got an ignorant interest in things like biodiesel, solar energy and thermoacoustic engines as an energy source too. It's neat stuff and it'll become really pertinent in the near future) Oh yeah, and what offramp said about pitching all the parts and gear....
Members fantasticsound Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 OT - Hey phaeton, an acquaintance of mine has a show on Spike TV called "Trucks!" I don't have cable, so I hadn't seen it. He sent a promo pack to my work that included an episode that dealt entirely with biodiesel. After Lee mentioned it on a thread at SSS, I was thrilled to see exactly what is involved in making your own. He claims the cost per gallon (after buying the apparatus) is about 70 cents per gallon! Aye, caramba!
Members MorePaul Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by fantasticsound The fact is there will always be people who enjoy understanding how things work. Most of these people become engineers or technicians of one sort or another, and they feed their thirst for knowledge by tearing things apart and putting them back together. Many times with improvements. definitely, DIY has certainly always been around - I guess you could say it was "thoe original" before the industrial revolution, before division of labour, etc You could say the same thing of woodworkers. Sure, you could buy a jewelry box off the shelf for your wife. Or, you could pour your heart and soul into building it yourself. Which do you think will be more appreciated, especially over time? I guess it sort of depends, yes the self-built has the emotional attachment, but then again - I think everyone has had a heathkit / homebrew scrap heap (I know I did ). and it did seem post 70s that the "manufactured" aesthetic v the "homebuilt" aesthetic sort of took back over and in a lot of cases, the home--built wasn't all that different from the commercial (I mean you look at old DOD units like thoe rack delays and the PCB didn't have a solder mark or anything, looks like a "brew") Other than that, Mr. Donovan hit it on the head. The internet. Previous generations of DIY'ers had to put some serious time into research in order to build their own projects. I think we had to put time into just information availability at all, but at the same time the information was consolidated differently...in print. The electronics rags have definitely taken a beating over the last couple of decades (ugh, look how much they've changed names/ownership) DIY electronics were available, but how many concentrated on guitar pre's and effects? In the 70s at least, I remember a lot of it...The rags usually carried a number of audio articles (it's a major gripe of people these days that they are too microcontrol/robotics oriented). I think the technology was at a point where there were some mature, useful resources for audio electronics (Audio specific or at least audio friendlycircuit integration, etc) that were still accessible to the home builder (through hole, externally trimmable) That was thatpoint when "no user servicable parts inside" was actually there b/c people were used to opening the back . I mean, remember when every hardware store had a tube tester At that time, I'd tend to class hobbyist guys into 1) radio guys 2) audio guys 3) digital guys 3 wasn't super mature yet, it was coming, but the tractible projects seemed to be less-than-stellar 1 and 2 always had crosstalk (as the radio guys needed to do signal conditioning anyway, and a lot of the radio guys were audiophiles/musicians as well) oddly, even within 2 there was crosstalk between hi-fi and instrument apps (shi-fi with reverb, some of em even had instrument inputs! ) but yeah, at least from my recollection audio was actually a big part of the scene those days (I think the complexity was reasonable, the results were good, you didn't have the sensitivities of RF, robotics still needed a decade and a half to mature) and, like today, every geek had a guitar so audio was in a good spot at the time as far as projects SO I guess from my perspective (which certainly isn't the only one or a right one) there seemed to be decently rich music DIY in the 70s maybe into the early 80s with sort of a drop off in later 80s/ early 90s (still a lot of legacy, but with MIDI, the move to LSI, the digital/microcontrol divide for anlog guys, that sort of thing) not to say it was ever gone (stuff rarely is), but it did seem to me to go underground a little more
Members Marcus Dahl Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by phaeton Definately, Marcus... If you're doing it for fun, go right ahead. If you're doing it to make money, you're probably going to be sorely dissapointed..... Lots of stuff like that, and as long as you understand it you're ok. P.S. i need a drill press It's not a matter of affording one, it's a matter of having the place to put it. You hit it on the head. I've already seen a couple of guys go under in the last 4 years of doing this. Partially they were in it for the money and didn't take care of their customers. You can get a cool bench top drill press. They take up little room and would do the job needed for DIY pedal deal. I got mine a Tractor Supply for around $45, but they can be found at Lowes, Home Depot, and Sears for like $75 and up.
Members WFTurner Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 I mean, remember when every hardware store had a tube tester Yes and that was definately awhile back.
Members MorePaul Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by WFTurner Yes and that was definately awhile back. don't make me feel old but yeah, at that time, user service was kind of part of the deal for that level of electronic tech
Members fantasticsound Posted July 27, 2005 Members Posted July 27, 2005 My point about music is that you didn't see all kinds of people displaying homebrew, guitar amps many places. Sure, if you were entrenched in the circles that did those things you'd see it. But with the net, even the most casual enthusiast can find whole libraries of information, available at their fingertips at the touch of a few computer keys. How many issues of a DIY magazine would you have to buy to get even a tiny fraction of what can be gleaned on the net in .0000128 of a second?
Members MorePaul Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Posted July 27, 2005 oh, the web has definitely made research of all kinds much easier, quicker, etc (ugh,including poor information ) just like many many people hav bought craigs book and never (or abortively) done the projects, the same may be true of dropping by all the various DIY forums the way information was disseminated was just different, but even in "gasp" my day - the concept of the archive wasn't exactly new...didn't alexandria have that too There was also a pretty cool resource back in the day...your local TV repaiment "ring modulator? trying to raise your talk power huh, yeah those carriers will suck up the watts! wha...you want to run your guitar through it...OK" like any other hobby (including guitar) , there was/is that synergy between the activity andthe research...you do a little, you ask a little, you learn who to ask where to ask, what to ask those sorts of things. My pint there isn't that the web doesn't impact things, but that the patterns might not be all that different, we just worked a little slower and over the mail/ham radio,ec I think the "displaying" may be a little different as well, we didn't for instance, have an internet to display things on. but even things like the Herzog, Magic Dingus box, Mike Odlfield's little woodden box were brews
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.