Saw the Bose Personalized Amplification System salespitch today...

[LiveMusic]

 

Originally posted by Scodiddly What if you'd spent that money on conventional equipment and gotten just as much training on getting a good sound on the regular stuff? If you committed to working with the regular system, to the point of changing your guitar amp, drums, etc?

 

 

Well, the concept is that no amount of training will do it... that the sound benefits provided by the PAS are unique. To my knowledge, nothing on the market compares at this time... for the applications in which it shines.

 

For instance, for someone like me, a songwriter who performs, I am not aware of any other system that people go so bananas over regarding how clear you can hear vocals. For a songwriter, the words being understood has major benefit.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, the reason it's best just to go see someone using the PAS is because it's hard to imagine the difference in sound (notice I don't say better or worse - just different ). The way the speakers throw is the main thing that makes it different from anything else, and the effect that has on the overall sound, both for the musicians and the audience. It's one of those things where either you really "get" the benefits of it and think it's worth it to go through the learning curve/spend the money etc... or you won't. Like any piece of gear. But it really does work and sound very different from a typical PA and most people kinda have to see it to be able to make an informed decision.

[daklander]

Russ, What up? You gonna be out West come September? Maybe get to Phil's?

 

Be good to meet in person.

[KB Gunn]

I am posting the link to the thread that involved my PAS listening experience about a month ago. I was impressed enough to decide to get a system as soon as I have the funds put aside.

 

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/6616049564/m/6961054702

[Miket156]

I always find these discussions interesting because products that are viewed as "expensive" will be gone over with a fine tooth comb to see if the money is justified. Having played in a lot of small lounges for many years, one of the problems I've run into when using a traditional PA is that the speaker cabinets have to point somewhere. Ultimately, the horn is going to toast someone's ears across the room, and the bass is going to rattle someone's teeth if you're in close quarters. You can't play rock at 70 db, it just comes across LAME. No drive, lack of dynamics, name an adjective. So the musicians turn it up to "get that sound" and the audience wants them to turn it down to preserve their hearing, as well as their false teeth.

 

I think the Bose PAS might be able to fill that role very well. It's sort of a surround sound system as it disperses the music much more evenly that a directional speaker cabinet.

 

Now whether you can afford the price tag for anything Bose is where the rubber meets the road.

 

 

Mike T.

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by flemtone Personally, I wanted to put a basketball hoop on it, but I was outvoted.

 

Best use for PAS

 

Terry D.

[Brittanylips]

For me, I'd want them to be more portable, something that would be a little easier for a wimp like myself to carry when the sherpas have the day off.

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[Tim Mayock]

The most amazing thing for me as a Bose PAS user is singing with these. It is really a treat. We went from a Mackie 808 powered pole system to 3 PAS systems

The Bose PAS has this natural support behind you that sounds better than any monitor system I've used.

I have some background in sound reinforcement, so I had less of a learning curve than other band members. We still get some feedback from time to time, we are a 2 quitar, bass and drums band. 3 of us sing.

 

It works great for the clubs we play in. We don't really have any big clubs where they would be not work in the hartford area. I should also mention our biggest amp on stage is a Dr.Z 22 watt. We don't get super loud and I like that.

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by Tim Mayock The Bose PAS has this natural support behind you that sounds better than any monitor system I've used.

 

 

Wait til you get on IEM's if you think that sounds good.

[Lee Flier]

Well some of us have tried IEM's and don't like them. Not everybody does... like any piece of gear. I don't enjoy performing with them.

[MrKnobs]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier Well some of us have tried IEM's and don't like them. Not everybody does... like any piece of gear. I don't enjoy performing with them.

 

 

This is true.

 

I've run IEMs for literally hundreds of artists from the obscure to the famous. Some folks just plain don't like 'em.

 

Soundguys love them, especially when the band in question also has low or no stage volume. There is no better mixing situation than that.

 

But if the musicians aren't comfortable playing, you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Terry D.

 

P.S. There is an art to running IEM mixes for a band. I've experienced some top pro monitor mix engineers totally screwing up an IEM mix. It's not like mixing wedges, you have to learn how to do it.

[daklander]

Originally posted by MrKnobs Terry D. P.S. There is an art to running IEM mixes for a band. ..... It's not like mixing wedges, you have to learn how to do it.

 

 

It's not here yet but that little code above is for a thumbs up.

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by daklander It's not here yet but that little code above is for a thumbs up.

 

 

Terry D.

[where02190]

Indeed mixing IEM's is completely unlike mixing wedges, and much more like mixing FOH. Bands that try to just replace their current monitor mixes with IEMs without a dedicated monitor engineer usually end up not liking them. I've come across this situation many times, and once they heard the full potential of IEM's, they never went back.

 

FOH guys liek them because they are no longer dealing with multiple time unaligned sources, creating a much cleaner mix without all the reflections of wedges, amps and other unnecessary sounds originating from several different places. This is especially true in smaller venues, but applies to the larger venue as well.

 

However, in the PAS defense, this is the beauty of them as well in the appropriate venue. Once source for each sound. Unfortunately I've seen some bands trying to cut corners and using only a couple of them as a more traditional pa setup, and it just is not how they are designed. The result is a mess.

[Tim Mayock]

My perspective is of a musician who plays most of our gigs without a soundman. It is unfortunately a reality of the times. I bought a Shure system IEM system and I tried to mix it onstage . It just didn

[Lee Flier]

We have several really excellent soundmen in this town but they stay pretty booked, and really, for the smaller gigs my band doesn't need a sound guy anyway... we're a 3 piece and can mix ourselves just fine. I agree that you really need a skilled monitor engineer to get the most from IEM's, and we were able to try them out with one of the aforementioned great sound guys. The mix was great and the fidelity of the sound was great; that wasn't the problem we had with them. I just don't like having something in my ears while playing, for one thing; it's distracting. It's one more piece of gear to worry about.

 

I also don't like not being able to talk to bandmates or audience while playing, and the whole concept of the sound coming from inside your head. It makes me feel disconnected from my bandmates and audience, like I'm listening to a CD while playing and not playing live. This is even with ambient mics set up and all that. I like hearing the sound coming from where it's actually coming from.

 

I know sound guys love working wtih IEM's and a lot of performers love them too... which is why I'm glad there are so many choices of gear, no one has to use anything they're not comfortable with. For us, we don't like IEM's and the PAS works great for us in situations where we wouldn't be using a sound man anyway. But I agree with where in that I've seen bands try to use them more like a conventional PA, and in the case of a full band it can indeed sound like crap. Like any piece of gear the PAS has to be used in the way it was designed to be used, and with something new, it often takes awhile for people to figure out what the limitations are.

[Drumr]

Duck King = IDIOT!

 

Had to say that since we are being closed minded and viscious.

 

 

Happy BOSE Rocker

[Drumr]

Hi Lee!

 

Didn't see you here before posting...I would have been more polite.

 

About in-ears; You know I'm a Bose convert and loving it and for that reason I don't like in-ears...I want to hear the beautiful sound coming from behind me.

 

However, my tinitus forces me to use in-ears. I play in a 4pc band now (sharing 2 PAS systems), and my snare & cymbal volume hurts my ears when at a volume that matches the guitars and bass. I played a 3pc Jam session a few weeks back and used Multi-rods with my drums and didn't have to use in-ears, what a glorious time I had that day. At that jam, we set out to play as quietly as possible. It worked out great. I videotaped some of it, and you can hear how loud the audience is compared to the band, it's pretty cool.

 

Back in the days of playing thru a 3-tier system, the in-ears sounded great, but compared to onstage Bose sound, they suck. Oh well, gotta do what you gotta do.

 

Good to see you here...come by The Bose forums someday and check in!

 

if interested in the jam video, go here:

 

Jam video...and more

 

see ya

Pete

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by Drumr I play in a 4pc band now (sharing 2 PAS systems), and my snare & cymbal volume hurts my ears when at a volume that matches the guitars and bass.

 

 

God forbid they actually turn down...

 

LOUDER?BETTER!!!!!

[Drumr]

Where,

I would never expect them to do that!!

 

in truth...one of the guitarists is very tasteful and wants to play quietly, but the other guy just isn't ready for that.

[LiveMusic]

Does anyone know how the speakers are configured inside the pole? What angles they are set at?

 

I searched MP and could not even find an old thread over there.

 

Anyone know what the angles are? Also, how many little speakers are there inside?

[Drumr]

LM,

 

I own two of these systems.

Each of the 2 sections of the array tower has 12 - 2 1/2" front firing speakers. 24 total, each section powered by a 250W amp. They don't need "angled", the soundfield spread is advertised as 180 degrees, but I have sat behind it and can still hear very well.

 

My systems each have 2-B1 subwoofers, each with 2-6" front firing speakers and the 2 are powered by the third 250W power amp (all 3 in are located inside the Base unit where the sticks plug in.

 

These things sound absolutely gorgeous and they are a breeze to set up. Nice thing about them is that YOU get to hear the great sound as does the listener. You aren't stuck behind big speakers listening to a crappy floor monitor.

 

And YOU are in control of everything!

 

Cool.

 

For info on the Bose stuff go to

Bose Forums

 

or www.bose.com/musicians and from there to the MESSAGE BOARDS

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by Drumr And YOU are in control of everything!

 

 

BUT, you only know what it sounds like where you are onstage, not in the middle of the audience, and no it does not sound the same 50 feet in front of the stage as is does onstage, unless you've found some magic that changes the laws of physics.

[LiveMusic]

 

Originally posted by Drumr Each of the 2 sections of the array tower has 12 - 2 1/2" front firing speakers. 24 total, each section powered by a 250W amp. They don't need "angled"

 

 

Do you know that the speakers are NOT angled inside, they just face front?

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by where02190 BUT, you only know what it sounds like where you are onstage, not in the middle of the audience, and no it does not sound the same 50 feet in front of the stage as is does onstage, unless you've found some magic that changes the laws of physics.

 

Yeah, they're all pretty much in denial about that.

 

I think that might be because they haven't studied acoustics.

 

If they had, they'd know this equation:

 

 

Which describes where the boundary zone for linear vs. inverse square effect in terms of frequency is for a given array length (height).

 

If they did know about the equation, they might be tempted to run out some numbers and graph them, like this:

 

 

From the graph, it can be seen that the SPL only drops off in a linear fashion for the higher frequencies (beaming). You know, kinda like an ordinary horn lense does, except without the horn distortion. For example, you can see in the figure that the linear array only helps at 1kHz for about 20 ft, then it's back to inverse square loss as usual.

 

This might go a long way toward explaining why they sound very thin out in the audience compared to onstage. Then again, they can be purchased with that little tiny computer style subwoofer if you like your bass thump up at 200 Hz or so, with no throw.

 

When I used to argue about this over on Live Sound, I hadn't heard one in use yet. Now, I've heard them a few times at clubs.

 

One thing I will give them: there is a nice quality to the sound that makes them very pleasant as monitors, or even as combination monitors/mains at very small venues, like a coffeehouse.

 

But rock they won't.

 

Depending on what you mean by rock, of course.

 

Terry D.