Members Hanshananigan Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Interesting concept! I remember folks talking about it on MP, but was glad to finally see (at least the second half of) the demo at Guitar Center. The demo CD sounded nice. I liked the lack of directionality of the high-mid & high-end from the Cylindrical Radiator
Members flemtone Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 I bought one main unit and a single sub to use with my acoustic trio, playing bars and parties. It works great! Two acoustics and the occasional 5-string ABG and three vocals through a mixer, panning the guitars left and the vocals right, bringing the L/R lineouts into channels 1 and 2 respectively, I can adjust the master volume of the guitars and the master volume of the vocals via the remote control. Add a guitar effect on channel 1 and a light vocal effect on channel 2, and everything balances out quite well. IT also leaves two open channels on the main unit in case a guest appears. For this band's application, it's a great thing. We travel to play some gigs, and the whole rig, the instuments, mics, stands, cables and the three of us manage to fit in a Saturn station wagon. For such a small footprint, it has a lot going for it. Besides that, we can decorate it for the holidays. Personally, I wanted to put a basketball hoop on it, but I was outvoted. I play bass in my other band, but the PAS didn't have enough 'thump' for me, so I'm keeping it solely for the acoustic band. It's perfect. Hope this helps, Basketball Jones from Jersey
Members Hanshananigan Posted July 28, 2005 Author Members Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by flemtone Besides that, we can decorate it for the holidays. Personally, I wanted to put a basketball hoop on it, but I was outvoted.
Members aclarke Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 sounds interesting - anyone have a link?
Members where02190 Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 For the solo acoustic, small lounge combo, or jazz band in a small to medium (up to about 500 seats) venue, they are superb if used as they are intended, one per member. However they are not IMHO a replacement for reinforcement for anything above lounge level, they just cannot reproduce the SPL cleanly or efficiently, and they have no balls. For the price of a couple you can have a nice pair of powered Mackies and a little mixer though, with mucho money left over, and the powered mackies and mixer take up about the same amount of volume. Nice concept, way overpriced. No highs, no lows, must be Bose.
Members flemtone Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by aclarke sounds interesting - anyone have a link? try here;http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/musicians/index.jsp&linksource=centernav_img_musicians&ck=0
Members Jon Doe Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 FWIW, everyone I know who uses the PAS sounds fantastic. I'd never recommend it for a big house situ, but for gigs in rooms of 100 or less they're superior to anything else I've ever heard. I wish I had the coin to pony up and see what a big stage would be like using the PAS as onstage sound (each member with their own as monitors) then going out to FOH. I suspect that the overall stage sound would kick ass. With this same setup you could probably play fairly large room without going to a PA. --- My $0.02
Members Lee Flier Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Hanshy, I guess you weren't around for all the hoopla when my band got hold of these as field testers, when they first came out. We've been using them for two years now and love it. We are a rock band, definitely not a polite coffee shop act, but not a metal band either. Our stage volume is around 105 to 110 dB if that gives you any idea. We don't have any problem at all getting the volume we need for smaller venues and small outdoor shows. You definitely need to spend time working with the system before you can really get the most from it though, it has a bit of a learning curve. If you're a guitar player used to playing a big amp and cranking it to 11, it's not going to sound good. The subs are fine for acoustic and low volume stuff but if you're putting a bass through it you will probably want additional subs, and a lot of folks use third party subs if they really want thump. The subs are not as different from conventional subs as the speaker tower is from conventional speakers... so you have to work with them a bit to get them positioned right and dial in the sounds you want. We do use them for bass and kick drum, though, and have got them sounding great. If you're using them the way they were intended, it's really a great concept and it does work great. If you play in large places and/or insist on having ear bleeding stage volume, it doesn't work (although you can use them as monitors in a large hall). Oh, and we did several clinics at GC's around the south and discovered that most of the GC sales people don't have a clue how to demo the things. I think you really need to see a band using them to get the full effect. I know on Bose's web site they have a gig calendar for bands who are using them, you might try to check out a band in your area... or you can check US out once you get moved to Birmingham.
Members Jon Doe Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 The thing is, you can't knock the sound quality, just the volume. And the volume is great for more than you'd think.
Members Jeebus Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by Duck King Bose buyers = idiots But, what do you think of the Bose POS?
Members Jas Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by Duck King Bose buyers = idiots
Members where02190 Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by Jon Doe I wish I had the coin to pony up and see what a big stage would be like using the PAS as onstage sound (each member with their own as monitors) then going out to FOH. I suspect that the overall stage sound would kick ass. With this same setup you could probably play fairly large room without going to a PA. Living in Bose country, and (not to pat my own back, but) being one of the areas more prominanty know/respected live engineers, I've heard many a Bose demo where they did exactly this, it didn't work. All the engineers invited to them agreed; they simply are not designed to do big volume or big venues, and can't compete with traditional SR. But then Bose isn't marketing them to be able to either.
Members Ani Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 We are a rock band, definitely not a polite coffee shop act... Awe, come on now Lee.... you mean to tell me that you don't play at Starbucks??? :D
Members Tim Mayock Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Our band has 3 of the Bose systems. We are not lounge act. I will say we sometimes have issues with drums vs. vocals in small rooms, but that is, in my opinion the drummers issue. I really like these things. They are an innovative product that works really well at making our band sound better. Typically a band with drums and electric guitars has to limit their stage volume while a singer is singing. Drummers can
Members where02190 Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Dynamics in a live performance is always crutial, and IMHO often overlooked. However, in my experience with the PAS, it simply cannot handle or reproduce cleanly rock levels in mid sized clubs. Yes it can compete somewhat levelwise, but there is a defined lack of clarity because of the distortion that occurs by driving the unit to it's limits, and nowhere near the bottom end that a traditional 3 or 4 way PA can generate. Granted it is also not nearly as phyiscally big as that PA either, but IMHO (and other well respected engineers) this is not the designed PAS appliction. However, as I stated before, used for it's intended purpose, small venue, jazz, lounge music, solo performer, IMHO there is no finer system.
Members Matisse Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Here's an indepth discussion. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=497247
Members Lee Flier Posted July 28, 2005 Members Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by Jon Doe I wish I had the coin to pony up and see what a big stage would be like using the PAS as onstage sound (each member with their own as monitors) then going out to FOH. Yeah there are quite a few bands doing this and it does work great. Really, the best way to find out what the PAS is and isn't capable of is to go see an actual band using them. There are always people who have an axe to grind with Bose that are going to trash them no matter what, and hearing just one system playing a CD doesn't really demonstrate what it does either. It's a pretty different concept from a traditional PA and there are a lot of people who still don't understand how it's supposed to work, so it's best to just go see somebody using them and decide for yourself if it's right for you.
Members where02190 Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by Lee Flier Yeah there are quite a few bands doing this and it does work great. Yep, and used for the intended purpose they are superb. Really, the best way to find out what the PAS is and isn't capable of is to go see an actual band using them. Which is exactly what Bose invited many of Bostons formost engineers to do, several times in several different venues, with a multitude of different styles of music, to get our views on them. we all agreed that for under 500 venues with light to moderate volume, they did a superb job. However when it came to concert level rock, they were no competition for a traditional 3-4 way active system. These are all seasoned pros with decades of touring experience on everything from a PA on a stick in a shoebox to the latest line array technology in stadiums and arenas across the world. I have NOTHING against Bose, and have several friends who work for them. (Their headquarters is about 35 miles from me.) They have developed a terrific product, but it, like anything else, is not the be all and end all answer for every situation. However it seems once again Lee is going to turn this into something ugly because someone won't agree how great these things are. Thus I shall now remove myself from this post, since I've had this p*ssing contest with Lee before, and I need not waste any more time or energy on it. Go hear them for yoruself and you will hear what we heard, then you make up your mind. I'm not worried about loosing work to them, and I don't know anyone who is.
Members Hanshananigan Posted July 29, 2005 Author Members Posted July 29, 2005 Thanks for the link, Matisse! I forgot it's been that long since it came out. Lee - glad you chimed in! I certainly do remember the MP discussion after your band got the PAS. I have some friends in Atlanta, so I'm looking foward to seeing you guys live sometime, after we get settled in. And if you ever play out in B-ham, definitely send me a PM!
Members russrags Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 I friend of mine does a solo act on Carnival Cruise ships and just got off the boat for a while to come to Nashville. Yesterday I landed him 4 gigs and he's really excited to use his new Bose PA. I heard the system for the 1st time yesterday at the Bose dealer and was very impressed how intivative the design is. I'd never heard a system before that produced the same amount of volume from no matter where I was in the room (even around the corner from the system). Today I'm going to help him with the sound as he's double booked Fri-Sat-Sun. In Nashville Bose seemed more than willing to provide additional units !!! Very cool Russ
Members LiveMusic Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by russrags I friend of mine does a solo act on Carnival Cruise ships and just got off the boat for a while to come to Nashville. Yesterday I landed him 4 gigs and he's really excited to use his new Bose PA. Russ, what kind of solo act? Guitar/vocal or keyboard/vocal? Where... you said we all agreed that for under 500 venues with light to moderate volume, they did a superb job. ...many bands in any given city do not play to 500 or more on a regular basis. Of course, if/when they do, they'd need something else. But even for that... it's just so damn expensive for a band. Multiple $2,000 systems... ugh. For solo, I continue to hear great reviews... they love it!
Members daklander Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by Duck King Bose buyers = idiots Folks who make un-substantiated remarks about something they know little or nothing about, other than what someone else has said, are idiots. If you have used Bose loudspeakers with no success it's simply because you did not follow their recommendations as to placement of the loudspeakers. Because they are reflective units they, obviously, need something for the output sound to reflect off of. I happen to own an old pair of 501s. They are in an alcove with a small component rack and a television. The are excellent sounding units and there is not much else out there that will do as well. As to the PAS, if you use it as it's intended and learn the nuances, it's a great sounding PA system. It was never intended to be used in really large venues. I'm sure Todd Rundgren is going to use a crappy product in his system and that's why he uses the Bose PAS in conjunction with other gear. Oh, those 501s do have highs and they have lows so they must be Bose.
Members russrags Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 Hey LIVE ... howdy !! Dak too My friend plays midi GTR and works foot pedels through a Solton. It's a cut above a Holiday Inn act as it's NOT sequenced ... he plays it all on GTR and his foot pedels LIVE. He plays Piano, String & Horn parts with his GTR while singing George Jones songs and such. http://www.roncrites.com since you asked. I don't know ... $2,000 per player, everybody is responsable for their own instrements ??? They've got a payment plan of less than $200 per mo. Sounds good to me. I may post further findings after the live gigs this weekend. Russ
Members Scodiddly Posted July 29, 2005 Members Posted July 29, 2005 I guess my big beef with the concept is that it's expensive, and you need extra training. What if you'd spent that money on conventional equipment and gotten just as much training on getting a good sound on the regular stuff? If you committed to working with the regular system, to the point of changing your guitar amp, drums, etc?
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