Definitions: "jam band"

[nat whilk II]

Maybe some folks are wary that the jam band thing will bring back the bad old days of overindulgent, pretentious, extended leads and sub-par improv that infected parts the rock scene in the early 70s.



nat whilk ii

[jahozer]

I dunno. Time has a way of weeding that {censored}e out. Good music holds up and bad music fortunately fades away....eventually.

[Steve LeBlanc]

We also cut "the boys" a little slack when they screw up lyrics and whatnot, more so than a band that is executing the exact show over and over.

 

 

this is the problem with your scene IMO, the sense of ownership the fans seem to have over the bands

 

When Widespread Panic hired a new guitar player to replace the dude who died, the fans were hypercritical of the guy (a good guitarist), or if the setlist doesn't include songs people want they complain, etc. etc. etc.

 

Call me crazy but if I'm a fan of a band, I try and support whatever they do, if I don't dig it, I don't dig it, I don't write a letter or call Radiohead to tell them I think they're getting a bit too artsy

 

I think the jamband scene is this way because the audience is mostly populated by overly privelidged people who think because they have stuff that they know music

 

blah, this post has not been proofread, I'm hungover and a client just knocked on my door...I'm probably just confusing ya'll

 

later

[Steve LeBlanc]

one other thing...the jamband/hippy scene is the only scene I know of that will boo musicians off a stage for trying something different.......in the old old days, audiences were hip enough to music to boo someone like Miles Davis off a small club stage, but a thousand stinky hippys booing good musicians is sad and sickening

[jahozer]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc one other thing...the jamband/hippy scene is the only scene I know of that will boo musicians off a stage for trying something different.......in the old old days, audiences were hip enough to music to boo someone like Miles Davis off a small club stage, but a thousand stinky hippys booing good musicians is sad and sickening

I have never really seen that, nor is that only endemic to hippies.
I would really like to see Metallica try a "jazz oddessey" Or The Eagles not play any of their "hits"
And dude, are you saying that people booed miles off the stage or didn't? If you are saying they did, are making the argument that they were justified?
The fact is that Miles did get booed off the stage for doing something different...
And I certainly do not take responsibility or condone the behavior of hippies... Thats a suckers bet right there... Not liking hippies does not discount the vailidity of the music

[Electric Catfish]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc one other thing...the jamband/hippy scene is the only scene I know of that will boo musicians off a stage for trying something different.......in the old old days, audiences were hip enough to music to boo someone like Miles Davis off a small club stage, but a thousand stinky hippys booing good musicians is sad and sickening

 

 

I've been to a lot of festivals, and I've NEVER seen hippies/jamband fans boo anybody, ever. What you're describing is the exact opposite of reality.

 

Are you sure you don't have the hippies and the punks mixed up? I can't imagine how that'd happen, but then again I can't imagine how someone would get the idea that jamband audiences are prone to heckling the bands.

 

Steve

[bp]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc one other thing...the jamband/hippy scene is the only scene I know of that will boo musicians off a stage for trying something different.......in the old old days, audiences were hip enough to music to boo someone like Miles Davis off a small club stage, but a thousand stinky hippys booing good musicians is sad and sickening

 

Steve, I've been working Bonnaroo for all 4 years and I've never seen a player booed off the stage. There are 5-6 stages at Bonnaroo and if someone doesn't like something there's plenty to choose from. I find that the fans there are very open to different styles of music as well. Out of the 60+ bands that have come across my stage, maybe 15% were sub par as players IMHO, but there were also some very nice suprises from groups I've never heard of before working the festival.

[Kris]

Originally posted by Lee Knight Disagree with me? Cool.

I disagree with you... Cool?

[Kris]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc this is the problem with your scene IMO, the sense of ownership the fans seem to have over the bands When Widespread Panic hired a new guitar player to replace the dude who died, the fans were hypercritical of the guy (a good guitarist), or if the setlist doesn't include songs people want they complain, etc. etc. etc. Call me crazy but if I'm a fan of a band, I try and support whatever they do, if I don't dig it, I don't dig it, I don't write a letter or call Radiohead to tell them I think they're getting a bit too artsy I think the jamband scene is this way because the audience is mostly populated by overly privelidged people who think because they have stuff that they know music blah, this post has not been proofread, I'm hungover and a client just knocked on my door...I'm probably just confusing ya'll later

So its ok for you to be critical of "jambands" but their fans can't?

[Electric Catfish]

Originally posted by TinderArts Steve, I've been working Bonnaroo for all 4 years and I've never seen a player booed off the stage. There are 5-6 stages at Bonnaroo and if someone doesn't like something there's plenty to choose from. I find that the fans there are very open to different styles of music as well. Out of the 60+ bands that have come across my stage, maybe 15% were sub par as players IMHO, but there were also some very nice suprises from groups I've never heard of before woking the festival.

 

 

That's sounds more like reality, and what one would expect.

 

I seriously have NO idea where anybody could get the idea that jam-band audiences boo bands of different styles.

 

That's about like saying "I hate Christians because they're all screaming "Hail Satan" all the time!" Completely asinine.

 

Steve

[Steve LeBlanc]

Big Ass Truck were booed when they opened for Widespread Panic because they dared to do a tune differently than people are used to hearing it, it was bull{censored}

Kris,
I haven't criticized jambands in this thread, I might have made a joke once that Widespread Panic suck but well, I don't really care about them either way...what I'm saying is if you're into a band, you're into them

to be fair, my comments are more directed at WSP than the whole scene but their fans are a big part of the scene

[Steve LeBlanc]

And dude, are you saying that people booed miles off the stage or didn't? If you are saying they did, are making the argument that they were justified?

 

 

actually, if memory serves, Miles didn't get on the stage until he was sure he wouldn't be booed I missed typed earlier but the gist of what I was getting at is still there, if Miles had tried to sit in with Bird before he was ready, he probably would have been booed...that was a scene where it was expected for the audience to really know what's up...my point was obviously lost you and I don't feel like explaining it...read Miles' autobiography, it's a good read

[flemtone]

I've been hitting Dead shows since 1967, , ABB since 1971, and countless other 'jamband' artists over the years. I love the genre. Sometimes it sucks. Sometimes it's inspired. Sometimes it's genius.

I have to say that watching other musicians get the same groove, feeding off each other, making eye-contact with each other, smiling at each other, joking and dueling with each other - it lets me see them as they might have been as kids just learning their instruments. That gleeful 'hey, watch this!' kind of thing.

I get the same vibe playing with my band - we've been together since 1975. Being through so much together for so many years, there's a real connection between us.

I see that same connection in many jam-bands. They're not playing to a script.

Audiences/fans vary. There's nothing more pretentious than a 'REAL FAN', as opposed to us ersatz ones (?). But you'll find them with every act out there, from Siouxie and the Banshees to Peggy Lee.

peace,
Tim from Jersey
(ps - TinderArts - I miss your avatar! )

[Lee Knight]

Originally posted by Kris I disagree with you... Cool?

Whoa, I earned a rolling of the eyes! Let's just all hug and be at one. Peace brother...

[whamtone]

Definition by example:

1) The Smucker Brothers

2) Lady Marmalade

3) Jelly Roll Morton

4) The New Orleans Jazz Hall Preserve Society

...that's all I can think of right now...

[jahozer]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc actually, if memory serves, Miles didn't get on the stage until he was sure he wouldn't be booed I missed typed earlier but the gist of what I was getting at is still there, if Miles had tried to sit in with Bird before he was ready, he probably would have been booed...that was a scene where it was expected for the audience to really know what's up...my point was obviously lost you and I don't feel like explaining it...read Miles' autobiography, it's a good read

 

Steve,

Miles Davis was not recieved well at all for the exploratory nature of his personality nor for the musical direction he chose later in his career. Certain jazz fans were very rigid in what they expected from their "improvisational" musicians. I am not sure that makes them "more sophisticated". I would think it would be just as wrong for them to boo, as it would for the 'spreadnecks'. It seems that you give one group of fans credit for being critical and another you chastize for the same thing.

 

If you don't feel like explaining a point that was "obviously lost on me" perhaps you should try to write a bit more cogently in the first place instead of assuming that the concept is above me. I will give you the benefit of the doubt if you do the same. OK?

[Steve LeBlanc]

did you read my posts?

first off, I don't think anyone ever booed Miles in his later career, yeah critics and the like wished he would go back to his older stuff but I think they mostly understood it was Miles and Miles would be Miles

my comments on booing of Bop players was referring to the late 1940s jazz crowd, comparing hippy stink to music fans of that era is really silly ....ok, not all jamband fans are hippys and not all stink but you get the idea, er, probably not

chill man...I'm just adding my 2 cents here, don't take it personal

[jahozer]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc did you read my posts? ....ok, not all jamband fans are hippys and not all stink but you get the idea, er, probably not chill man...I'm just adding my 2 cents here, don't take it personal

 

Kinda hard when you say {censored} like that and insuate that your grand concepts are lost on me. Your 2 cents are fine. If you would just leave it at that I would be fine too. But like every post you make on this thread has some form of insult in it. Don't get your panties bunched if someone calls you to task for the comments you make.

[jahozer]

populated by overly privelidged people who think because they have stuff that they know music did you read my posts? most definitly and in general that audience is seen as selfish and weird by people who aren't part of the scene (y'know, like Scientology) but a thousand stinky hippys my point was obviously lost you and I don't feel like explaining it you get the idea, er, probably not

 

I don't really want to fight with you, Steve. I understand what you are saying, for the most part. I am just getting a bit prickly over some of your comments that go beyond a discussion of music and musical genres. And yes I did read your posts...did you read mine?

[Perfessor]

I think the writer was sent there and didn't know a thing about jazz. Then the writer heard some solos and thought that was a way to describe them that people could relate to. Lots of jazz groups may fall into some catagory or another, but that writer didn't know jazz.

[Jimbroni]

I think Steve Leblanc and Lee Knight are spilling boatloads of mis information. The jamband scene does attract hippies, and dead heads. However, if you have ever been to one of these festivals you'll find out real quick that that is a keyhole definition. You'll find jazzers, rockers, bluesmen, country, folk, rnb, gospel, etc. This jam scene is really nothing more than a way for bands who are experimental or not to bypass the cut throat music industry. These are musicians who opt for a more "liberal" business model. Its way for good bands who aren't willing to get boob jobs and lipsuction to survive in an industry which is saturated with vultures more concerned with visual stimulation than aural stimulation. If there is a common thread among these so called jam bands its a spirit of collaboration which hasn't existed on a level this big since the bebop era. The main reason MMW gets lumped in is because they are a festival favorite.

[jfricker]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc one other thing...the jamband/hippy scene is the only scene I know of that will boo musicians off a stage for trying something different.......in the old old days, audiences were hip enough to music to boo someone like Miles Davis off a small club stage, but a thousand stinky hippys booing good musicians is sad and sickening

 

 

I've never seen or even heard of that. Maybe it only happens in LA?

 

At the seminal west coast jam band scene - The High Sierra Music Festival - bands are encouraged and rewarded for trying new things (such as Karl Denson yielding the stage during his set while guests Bela Fleck and Fared Haque trade licks a blazing duel). The late night (sometimes all night) concerts are often major experimental events (such as 2 jazz trios merging into one 6 piece, 2 kits, 2 bassists, 1 guitar and 1 sax improv melting pot). The jam band fans tend to have a different kind of appreciation of music than your typical urban pop culture consumer.

[Lee Knight]

I'm sorry if I spread misinformation. I was just having fun. I'm not really a mean spirited kind of guy, but there is something about the "jam scene" that makes me giggle.

I'm sure the musicians themselves are aware of these stereotypes and have a good laugh at themselves from time to time.

Please don't take this stuff too seriously. I saw with my own eyes, Rob Halford from Judas Priest watch Spinal Tap in the theatre. They were in San Diego the weekend it came out... the guy lauged louder than anyone there. The movie makes fun of his scene, right?

[Jimbroni]

Thats all right. I probably came off a bit harsh. The thing that gets me is that this "scene" has a lot of potential. I believe music for everyone is being expanded in this scene as we speak. You know somethings up when Herbie Hancock gets involved. Yes he was at Bonnarroo this year. It just irks me when people say jam band and instantly its Oh you mean hippies and the dead. What a disservice IMO. The Dead are mediocre at best. If there are prototypes for Jam bands, I'd say it would be more like The Band, The Allman Bro's, Parliament, Jefferson Airplane, Little Feat, Sam Bush, etc. Thats still insufficient, but better than Phish or the Dead. Its beyond me how these two bands got to be so huge, they're not that good to be icons.

[jahozer]

The prototype for the jambands is the GRATEFUL DEAD
The jam scene exists by mimicking their ethos and business model.
They did not repeat shows
They started mail order tickets
They toured incessantly
They improvised
They allowed taping and encouraged trading of their shows
They provided camping outside of their venues
Those aspects fostered a close connection between them and their fans.
The reason the jam scene exists is a direct result from the efforts pioneered by them.
Phish's success stems from the fact that they were the first to copy ver batim their business model.

The Band, The Allman Bro's, Parliament, Jefferson Airplane, Little Feat, Sam Bush did not do these things and therefore can not claim any responsibility for this. All of the bands mentioned either broke up early or have completely different lineups now. Whether or not they are good bands or are "better" than the Dead is a matter of opinion and largely taste, but the roots of the jam scene being the Grateful Dead is historical fact.