"Name" producers.... why do labels want them?

[Joe Cole]

I was just reading an article about Joe Barresi and Queens of the Stone Age in the July issue of SOS. Barresi was initially asked by the band to produce but the label (Interscope) wanted a "Name" producer to head the project.

 

I got to thinking.... why does a label want a "Name" producer on a project?

 

What do you think is the goal of hiring a "Name" producer? Is it consistancy (cost/signature sound) or is it marketing?

 

On the whole, is it worth it?

[Spencer Crewe]

Sometimes a producer's "name" will sell CDs. That may be the only reason behind it. Not because of what they may or may not add to a project. Bankability.

 

Cheers!

Spencer

[Lee Knight]

I think rather than it selling CD's, it sells the project to the industry. Once the industry is "hip to the buzz", the end result is to sell more CD's.

[gtrbass]

The funny thing is Joe is a "name" producer. I know Joe. He's an acquaintance of mine. He is a very intelligent, nice, and musically brilliant guy. He's a very good musician, and a great engineer. He knows things about how to make a record unique. He doesn't have a "sound" that he stamps all over you. He helps you find YOUR sound.

 

You want the truth about why some label guys want a "name" producer? It's all about any number of things.

 

Sometimes it's about a goofy sense of perception. Big name guys don't help sell records because their name is on it. However, it does lend credibility to a small number of insider gatekeepers, like program directors, journalists, etc. If the record sucks, then it won't sell even if Sir George Martin produced it. (Yes, even big league guys will grunt out a big smelly pile once in a while.)

 

If a producer knows what he/she is doing, has a great rapport with the artist and the project is firing on all cylinders, it doesn't matter whether they're a name. What matters is whether that whole team can make a great record.

 

The real reason the label dork wants a name producer?

 

The A&R guy wants to install a producer who plays ball with him. It's about politics. (Like it or not, corruption and nepotism are somewhat rampant.) He wants a guy who will help him do what he needs to do. That can also involve kickbacks and other seedy things.

 

A big name producer can also help reel in an artist who the label "wants to mold". Are you gonna go the control room and tell Mutt Lange he's wrong? You know who's more important than the big name producer? A great engineer. I've seen more top flight engineers rescue the "suck knob" away from the goofball producer than I care to remember.

 

Here's how to tell if a producer is worth working with:

1) They listen more than they talk.

2) They don't try to impress you with all the big records they've done.

3) They share the credit for the success of the record if it blows up big. They're humble.

 

Some "name" producers who truly deserve their reputation:

Sir George Martin

Alan Parsons

Geoff Emerick

Bob Ezrin

Rupert Hine

Trevor Horn

Steve Albini

Mke Clink

Sylvia Massey Shivey

George Massenberg

Quincy Jones

Walter Afanasieff

 

Other producers who also "deserve" their repuation:

Glenn Ballard

Mutt Lange

Roy Thomas Baker

Bob Rock

Phil Spector

Andy Johns

Eddie Kramer

Keith Olsen

David Foster

Tom Werman

[Phil O'Keefe]

Excellent responses, and there's truth in all of them... I only want to add one thing that I didn't see mentioned: A "big name" producer" is a proven entity. When you're putting a half-mil into a recording budget (and a lot more than that into payola and promotion to try to "break" a record), you don't want to take chances on something that is unproven. If you're JJP, RTB or Quincy Jones, you've already proven that you have the knowledge and skills needed to make a marketable product. Yup, product. Just about any record is a gamble... you want to reduce your risks and stack the deck in your favor whenever and however possible. Hiring a proven producer who has a reputation for making hits is one way to do that.

[Ernest Buckley]

Very good posts. Sometimes I think that if a talented unknown (such as many on these forums) were to have access to the same studios, engineers and ESPECIALLY TALENT, that the records would sound close to what a big name guy would do.

 

Again, not to be disrespectful of what a George Martin or Alan Parsons or Trevor Horn can do but these guys are also working with elite talent and gear. I do wonder how much of their talent rubs off on the artist they are working with.

 

Granted the Beatles were not capable of doing nearly half of what they did without Martin but he did not write the song. I listen to Seal and his stuff is amazing as well due to Horn but there is a part of me that wants to hear John Doe produce these big names and see what they too can come up with.

 

I guess as an artist myself, I would like to think that a talented unknown artist working with an unknown talented producer could go into the studio and come out with a product truly considered the same as what a big name could do for you.

 

The whole concept of producer is abstract anyway so its difficult to answer how successful a Seal or Bonnie Raitt would be with a John Doe.

[boosh]

Now that was a good post Enest!!!

[Phil O'Keefe]

+1!

 

Good post Ernest.

 

Yes, gear makes a difference, and the engineer's and producer's skills make a difference... but IMO, none of that can make up for a sub-standard song (MOST important element IMO) or a lackluster performance, arrangement or instruments. IOW, yes, if you picked one person from these forums at random, and stuck them into a mega-studio with good musicians, acoustics and gear and gave them a good song to produce, you would probably see / hear better results than what they might get at home with lesser gear / musicians / materials. However, it still takes skill on the part of the engineer and producer to bring out the BEST from whatever is on hand. And all other things being equal, a good producer and engineer do make a significant difference in how the record turns out. And that's why labels are hesitant to bring "unproven" people into the equation - there's just too much money (not to mention their jobs) at stake to take any un-needed gambles.

 

Of course, that DOES make it a bit harder for new people to break into this business.

[boosh]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe [b Of course, that DOES make it a bit harder for new people to break into this business.

Eventually I will,... I know I have the skills to become one of the guys mentioned in the list above.

 

I will be a producer with a Name someday. I listen,absorve,try and produce untill I make it.

 

I can do it,yes I can...... In a time not so far away labels will call me day in day out. Everybody's gonna want

 

Booshy"The Heineken Guy"

 

Now how's that for a Peptalk ??

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay Boosh, I believe you. Now, how exactly do you plan to accomplish that goal? Have you set any specific plan of attack?

[Bunker Buster]

It's all politics. If some dweeb at some label doesn't care for you for whatever reason, then they will get somebody else, or maybe even somebody that they're good buddies with.

 

If a person isn't a big name producer, then it is highly advisable to sign contracts with any up and coming bands that somebody is working with. In the scenario that a major picks up the band on the strength of the demo that you made, then there is a possibility that they will have to buy you out, and they will not be able to just throw you to the curb.

[blue2blue]

If you're A&R and you hire Joe Nobody to produce some hot new band that the label thinks is promising and dumped a bunch of advances on --and the album tanks -- you get blamed for entrusting the project to Mr Nobody.

 

But if you hire [famous producer here] and the project tanks -- you can say, "Well I threw the very best at them and they still ate mud -- so what doest that tell you about those losers." Of course, if you were also responsible for signing them it may not be as easy...

 

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

"Name" producers.... why do labels want them?"

 

it's kinda like reversed proportional to the reason why Ferrari don't let everyone drive a Formula One car at a race...

[Ernest Buckley]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I truly feel that if I had the same resources: great song, musicians, artist and studio, I could produce an album that would be considered a "hit" and it would be worth listening to and owning.

 

Again, I am not saying this to be disrespectful or to take away anything from the masters mentioned above. As a choir director for a local church I have the role of leading and directing 35 people with very diverse personalities and skills. For the most part, considering the resources, we do pretty well for a volunteer group.

 

Being a big name producer also demands a personality that is flexible enough to work with the many different personalities. A Mutt Lange is known for butchering an artist and building them up again, however he must have a personality that is able to regain the confidence of the artist he is working with or else he would not still be a mega producer.

 

Boosh- I love your attitude, you will succced if you maintain that. Much Success.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Being a big name producer also demands a personality that is flexible enough to work with the many different personalities.

 

This is SO true... although not all producers have great personalities, being able to work well with a wide range of people, being personable and likeable and easy to work with is, IMO, a crucial characteristic of a good producer.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Bunker Buster It's all politics. If some dweeb at some label doesn't care for you for whatever reason, then they will get somebody else, or maybe even somebody that they're good buddies with. If a person isn't a big name producer, then it is highly advisable to sign contracts with any up and coming bands that somebody is working with. In the scenario that a major picks up the band on the strength of the demo that you made, then there is a possibility that they will have to buy you out, and they will not be able to just throw you to the curb.

 

Good points... although some bands are going to hesitate to sign anything that might hinder them later. I've known people who were under such contracts who couldn't get out of them and the original producer refused to any sort of a reasonable buyout, and the label therefore decided to "pass" on the band. IOW, the contract needs to be fair, and have reasonable buy out clauses.

 

You might also specify that you get to do X amount of songs as producer on any major label album release, at a reasonable / standard producer rate, in lieu of a buyout. That way, you have to do more work, but you can possibly get a few cuts on the band's major label release and still get paid for it.

 

It's all negotiable... but insisting on being the producer for every track on a major label release, should the band get picked up, rarely works from what I've seen. The best you can hope for is a few cuts on that release (and payment for them), or a complete buyout. Personally, I would recommend the former if you're trying to establish yourself and you're interested in doing further / future major label productions. That, and get to know a lot of A&R doods / dudettes. Network, network, network. And I suck at the "fake schmooze" thing. But remember - once you have a "rep" in their minds as a "demo producer", it's hard to go beyond that.

[Jotown]

In the end it is just like any other business. A "big name" producer has a track record and the experience to get the job done. It's nice to think that anyone with a budget and top gear could do as well, but I have watched people dump buckets of money in a top rate studio with John Doe at the helm and come out with crap.

 

I used to do a lot of production projects, mostly jingles and audio post with a few artists tossed in. There is a guy in my market name Louis Resto who I would hire to do the Keys/Sequencing in pre-production. He charged a lot of cash per hour, but every thing he played I used.

 

When I couldn't afford him anymore I tried several very talented "John Does" and I would get only 10% of useable stuff than I got from Louis. Louis is a pro and a "Big Name" cat in my market. He was first call in Detroit for years because he delivered every time. It is the same with producers.

 

Louis Resto by the way is now a millionaire due to his success with Eminem

[Phil O'Keefe]

In the end it is just like any other business. A "big name" producer has a track record and the experience to get the job done. It's nice to think that anyone with a budget and top gear could do as well, but I have watched people dump buckets of money in a top rate studio with John Doe at the helm and come out with crap.

 

I definitely agree with you Jotown. But OTOH, I have also seen people dump buckets of money into things WITH a big name producer at the helm and still come out with crap too.

 

At least with the previously established people, you have some background and "track record" (sorry for the pun) to go by.

[Jotown]

I definitely agree with you Jotown. But OTOH, I have also seen people dump buckets of money into things WITH a big name producer at the helm and still come out with crap too.

Aint' that the truth. I have to add that I have also seen a "John Doe" (who knew what they were doing) get a shot in a real pro enviroment and be able to deliver as well.

 

In fact I know a few "John Doe's" that I would have no problem giving a big job to. A&R folks as well as executive producers on the other hand have to deliver every time to keep their jobs. Thats why they don't gamble on me or my "John Doe" buddies.