Help.

[LiveMusic]

How much money does she have saved up? If she were moving to the next NEIGHBORHOOD, she'd need a pile of money. If she doesn't have a pile, uh, reality check is in order. It's insane. Tell her to move out in your city, save up her money and then strike out to anywhere her heart desires. And you can't wait to come visit.

I'm all for striking out. I did. I think we were 19. A bud and I were gonna go pick peas in Canada for Jolly Green Giant. Never made it. Saw all the construction when we passed Vail, Colorado, pulled in, got a job in one hour.

But we had a car and each had a pile of money saved up. How is she going to survive past a week without a pile of money. She's not ready, IMO.

Plus, she happened to pick the most expensive place in the country. Hey, I wanna go, too but sheesh... show her how much stuff costs where you live versus California.

It's really not a dad thing, it's just common sense. Not that she'll listen to you.

[Super 8]

I think you gotta let her go, Ted.

Make sure she knows that she's welcome back if it doesn't work out. I think the more you hold her back, the more she is going to feel that she NEEDS to do this.

In six months, when she's sick of the low paying jobs, the musicians with attitudes, and her and her roomate are pulling each other's hair out, she'll come home.

Besides, if you don't push her, maybe this whole thing will fizzle out, or maybe her friend will get cold feet.

I understand your concerns, but she's 18 now and she has to start thinking for herself......and making her own dumb mistakes.

[Tedster]

Ani...wrong Holly. I'm talking about Holly Lingle...you're thinking of the other Holly. Holly Lingle is 19.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by LiveMusic How much money does she have saved up? If she were moving to the next NEIGHBORHOOD, she'd need a pile of money. If she doesn't have a pile, uh, reality check is in order. It's insane. Tell her to move out in your city, save up her money and then strike out to anywhere her heart desires. And you can't wait to come visit. But we had a car and each had a pile of money saved up. How is she going to survive past a week without a pile of money. She's not ready, IMO. It's really not a dad thing, it's just common sense. Not that she'll listen to you.

 

 

This is precisely my point, Duke. But...I also agree with Super 8. We'll help her do what she wants...to a point. We'll see where it goes.

 

My cousin Anne graduated from high school in 1966. She thought it'd be fun to study for a year or so in Paris.

 

She's lived there ever since. So, these things can have happy endings. Man...talk about mixed feelings.

[thankyou]

Good thing she doesn't have a car - gas just hit $4.00 a gallon on Highway One.

My kids are nineteen and twenty-three. They both are hitting the adult world wall after emerging from the adolescent bubble.

I might be up your way next week. I'll buy you a beer if you have some time off. I haven't tried the forum email yet, but I guess now's as good a time as ever.

Henry

[Geoff Grace]

Tedster, I'm one of those people who played it safe and lived to regret it. I've never shared this story in a public forum before; but I've decided to now, in case it helps.

 

I always knew I wanted to be a musician, and I begged for piano lessons for years before my parents finally got me started when I was six. When I was in sixth grade, I saw a kid named Michael Jackson perform with his brothers on American Bandstand, and I knew that's what I wanted to do too. I told my mom I wanted to get started right away; but she said, "No. I want you to have a normal childhood."

 

In hindsight, I'm glad she made that decision; but I pined away for a career as a recording artist thereafter and I was always writing songs and forming bands throughout junior high and high school. I was seventeen when I graduated from high school and ready to move to Los Angeles; but my parents convinced me to try college first so that I might have a degree to fall back on.

 

I was 21 when I received my degree in music composition. Even though I was still eager to move to LA, I decided to follow a relatively secure plan to get there: I modeled my plan on the Beatles' success. They made it big in Liverpool first and then went to London to get signed, so I decided to make it big in my hometown of Phoenix first and move to LA to get signed. Hey, it worked for the Beatles, right? What better way to become successful than by emulating a success story?

 

During the next few years, I joined or formed a succession of hometown bands, all of whom agreed to that plan but ultimately didn't follow it. Despite a lot of local (and even regional) success, none of those bands wound up in LA. Finally, I quit playing in bands and I started playing in piano bars so that I could find a stable way to support myself in LA in which I wouldn't have to rely on the choices of my bandmates.

 

After a year of playing on my own, I finally made it to LA - eleven years after I graduated from high school! It took me another two years to become established here. By that time, I was thirty - a tough sell as a fledgling recording artist. I became successful working with recording artists and built a nice r

[Anderton]

Once I was in Berkeley, designing effects processors for a company called Seamoon. One of the employees did final tests on the Funk Machine processors, and had some (very) limited success in a local band.

 

One day I visited the factory and she said "Craig, I'm going to leave Berkeley, go to Los Angeles, start a rock band, and make it big." I knew the odds were against her, but she was smart and determined.

 

Her name was Martha Davis, she started the Motels...and you probably know the rest

 

Sometimes dreams do come true. The odds are against your daughter, and maybe she doesn't have the same laser intensity/ambition/smarts that Martha had. Or maybe she does. Or maybe she'll end up doing something different.

 

She sure chose an expensive place, though

 

One other thing...I left college to join a rock and roll band. This was during the Vietnam war and my parents were terrified I'd get called up in the draft and end up going over there. They were also worried about the drug scene, etc. etc.

 

Well, the army didn't want me (they didn't quite say "If you want to help us, please join the other side," but they came close), and once I met enough musicians who were wasted big time on drugs, that didn't really interest me. The band ended up cutting three albums, played most of the US east of the Mississippi, played Carnegie Hall, and I got an education in recording and the music business I would never have gotten in college.

 

Then again, maybe it would be a different story if I hadn't been able to run faster than the guy in Boston chasing me with a broken bottle because I had long hair, but...sometimes things work out of the best. In any event, in your case it's her decision, and just let her know that you wish her luck and if it doesn't work out, you should be the first person to call.

 

Oh, and one more thing...after the band thing ended, and I was doing more studio work, at one point I was producing an album for another artist and I was supposed to be finished with it before I was slated to move from Philadelphia to California. I gave up my apartment in Philly and wouldn't you know it, the album dragged on and on...so I was basically homeless. I didn't want to rent another place, and I couldn't move out to CA yet. So I asked my parents if I could stay with them for a couple months while I finished the album, and my girlfriend at the time stayed with me. Well, we ended up staying there for TWO YEARS!! Why? Because my girlfriend was the daughter they never had, and they loved her a lot (my Mom still keeps in touch, and my Dad would if he was still alive). And my girlfriend really hit it off with my folks. For me, it was really different to be with my parents as a mostly successful adult instead of as a kid.

 

We all grew much closer together in the process, and thoroughly enjoyed each other's company. It was bittersweet when we finally did move, but it was an experience that enriched us all beyond measure. In retrospect, I was very, very lucky the album got delayed. I highly recommend that if someone leaves home early in life, they spend some time later on catching up.

[phaeton]

Well...

I've got to kind of stick up for Ted here.. I'm not married and i don't have any kids, but for some reason i think i see his point. He's not really worried about the hardships she may face, or the loss of personal properties or anything like that. He's worried about something *bad* happening to her. Bad like drugs, rape, death- the sorts of things she can't recover from. Everything else is life.

Of *course* he would buy her a plane ticket home with no hesitation if she needed one. Of *course* he knows to tell her the door is always open for her and she can always come home. It's not an ego thing and he's not trying to make her life miserable.

He's had other trauma in his life (as a parent) that is making it really hard for him to "let go". It's the sort of thing that you never really 'get over'. I don't know if i'm at liberty to mention, so i'll let him bring it up if he's comfortable.

I don't read it that he's trying to keep her at home. He's not being clingy. He says "she's just not ready to be on her own". That in itself would be fine, if it weren't Los Angeles she was going out to. Kansas City or somewhere close by wouldn't be as big of an issue. Yeah, i left home and moved thousands of miles away to a big city when I was 17. Lots of us here did that. But if i could say anything, i really had my {censored} together. As he describes it, Lindsay doesn't, no matter how much he loves her.

Yeah it's true that she might go out there, and learn the ropes really quickly. She might adapt instantly and it might turn out ok. It could happen, and it'd be nice if it would. Maybe she'll hook up with a band and become rich n famous. How cool would that be?
What will probably happen is she'll go out there, see the harsh reality firsthand, pawn her guitar, and come home within 6 months. That doesn't help Tedster out right now, but that's my prediction. You can explain stuff to people till you are blue in the face but they won't believe you until they see it for themselves.

Yes i also realise that he can't really stop her. If it were any other place that was 'safer' i don't think he'd consider trying, but the combination of "she's not ready" and "Los Angeles" aren't a good mix.

Unfortunately, I don't have any solutions for him, other than to hope this 'phase' passes, but if it doesn't, to hope that everything turns out ok. The chances for everything being 'ok' are really good, in spite of his fears.

Keep on pluggin away Ted...

At least Lindsay is following her love of music and not trotting after a man. My sister pulled a stunt of following a man to Washington State where she lived in almost GHETTO conditions for several months. It cost my parents SEVERAL thousands to bail her out and bring her home.

Ani, most of your post was good, but did you really have to put in this plug? I understand that in your mind all girls are perfect and innocent lest they tangle with a man somewhere and it's all downhill from there.... But is that really relevant in this case? I know you're just trying to help but let's please keep this unbiased and untainted from our personal agendas.

[Ani]

Originally posted by phaeton At least Lindsay is following her love of music and not trotting after a man. My sister pulled a stunt of following a man to Washington State where she lived in almost GHETTO conditions for several months. It cost my parents SEVERAL thousands to bail her out and bring her home. Ani, most of your post was good, but did you really have to put in this plug? I understand that in your mind all girls are perfect and innocent lest they tangle with a man somewhere and it's all downhill from there.... But is that really relevant in this case? I know you're just trying to help but let's please keep this unbiased and untainted from our personal agendas.

 

 

Phaeton,

 

You're completely off base with your comment and you are reading FAR TOO MUCH into it. In no way did I insinuate any negativity about the man; that's entirely YOUR TAKE!!!! Factually speaking, my sister was not even living with the man; but you don't need to know the specifics. My comments WERE indeed relative to the conversation because the focus was on the fact that my parents spent several thousands of dollars helping my sister recover from her OWN stupity; up to and including drug addictions and complete rehabilitation.

 

My comments were geared towards spending the money now to assist a kid in building their dreams, rather than having to spend it in a negative fashion somewhere down the line on a road to recovery after the damage is done.

[Anderton]

 

My comments were geared towards spending the money now to assist a kid in building their dreams, rather than having to spend it in a negative fashion somewhere down the line on a road to recovery after the damage is done.

 

 

Good point. And it would probably cost more to repair the damage than feed the dream.

[Ani]

Originally posted by Tedster Ani...wrong Holly. I'm talking about Holly Lingle...you're thinking of the other Holly. Holly Lingle is 19.

Gotcha!!! I didn't realize there were 2 Holly's that were involved in music with Lindsay.

What happened to the band thing with the OTHER Holly?


.... and what about Lindsay coming up this way and jamming out with Drew once he gets a little more situated?

Ha! I probably see Drew more than you do nowadays!!! :D He's at the BB that my son has a game pass to.

If the kids could get a tight enough band together, I've got some kin folk that have a bit of jurisdiction over the Old Shawnee Days Festivals that take place every year... this year's done, but..... who knows what next year might bring. Don't know what flies, but never hurts to put a plug in if a band gets a good act together.

BTW, I talked to Midge (Roger's sister) about the "Grand Emporium" and asked her why Roger decided to sell out. She said that he had a few other musical endeavors that filled his musical cup, and that he wanted to spend some time with his little one growing up in the world. She said that the GE took him away from home for way too many hours a day to keep the place in full swing. She gave me the name of another place that the oldtimers sort of migrated to, but it escapes me since I'm not much on going out anymore. If you don't already know the name of the place and you're interested in finding out, I can probably catch up with her and find the information and location for you.

[Ani]

Originally posted by Anderton Good point. And it would probably cost more to repair the damage than feed the dream.

 

 

Absolutely!!!

 

Allow them to be their own individual person, but lay the stepping stones that allow them to bypass a lot of the turmoils or snares they are bound to fall into without any guidance. Don't stand in their way, but rather, open the doors and allow them to look inside while showing them the right way to approach the obstacle course that lies before them. You'll gain respect rather than resentment and you'll find that it's easier to build a new home from the ground up, rather than trying to put back the pieces of a home that has been shattered by a tornado and get all the pieces to fit back together to make things whole again...

[Tedster]

Phaeton probably understands me the best. I appreciate all of your comments and all, and it has really helped me sort through things.

Key is...dad or not, I think I'm a reasonably fair judge of the situation.

We've all known parents who have been "You've GOT to hear my kid play, they're PHENOMENAL!!!" and you hear the kid, and the kid has a LO-OOONGGG way to go. Holly's parents are like that..."Isn't she GREAT?"...well, ummmm...

Lindsay enjoys playing. And she's improving. But, she's by no means at the stage where she should be thinking "move to L.A. and make it". To be fair, though, she just wants to move out there and hook up with some like-minded musicians. Good luck. One of the reasons I gave up on bands, even for local bar bands, is 'cuz I'm absolutely sick of everyone having their own agenda. She's experiencing that too, and I don't really expect it to be much different in L.A. Just a LOT more people with a LOT more agendas.

But, like Dorothy, perhaps she'll have to leave Kansas to find that out for herself. Just hope she has the good fortune to meet up with some good scarecrows, tin men, and lions, and not too many wicked witches.

Oh, Ani...Little Holly is still coming to guitar class.

[phaeton]

You're completely off base with your comment and you are reading FAR TOO MUCH into it.

 

Ok i'll shut up then.

 

My comments were geared towards spending the money now to assist a kid in building their dreams, rather than having to spend it in a negative fashion somewhere down the line on a road to recovery after the damage is done.

 

I guess I missed this in your post, but I will agree with you here.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Tedster Phaeton probably understands me the best. I appreciate all of your comments and all, and it has really helped me sort through things.

Ted, it's not like I don't understand your feelings about the situation. I totally do. I know you don't want anything bad to happen to her, and I suppose I'm a bit blase about L.A. because it's where I grew up and I don't think of it as being "the big bad city" so much, at least not in the same way you do. Like any city there are areas to avoid, but it's such a huge city that those areas are easy to avoid. And like I told you, I still have plenty of family and friends out there that I'm sure would be happy to help Lindsay if need be. My mom might even be willing to rent them a room or offer them a place to stay while they look for an apartment, she has a spare and has done things like that in the past. She's recently retired and would love the company I'm sure.

I don't doubt you have a realistic idea of Lindsay's playing ability, but honestly I don't think that's very relevant to what you're feeling nor Lindsay's situation. The whole point is that she needs to find out whether she's "ready" or not from someone other than you. I think this is a good opportunity for her to find out pretty quickly. I think Ted that you're focusing on the positive aspects of a parent being a musician and being supportive of their kid's musical leanings, and there's a lot positive about that... but at the same time there's a downside in that a kid can feel constantly in the parent's shadow and feel that everything they do is subject to the parent's judgement (consciously or not). I get the sense that there is some of that going on with Lindsay and she's got to have the opportunity to test her own mettle, and whether you think she's ready is totally beside the point - in fact the whole point is for her to stop caring what you think. I hope that doesn't sound harsh, I'm just trying to be objective about it because I know that's difficult for you right now and I do understand that!

[Tedster]

Oh yeah, I know, Lee...that's why I wrote these last sentences on my above post...

"But, like Dorothy, perhaps she'll have to leave Kansas to find that out for herself. Just hope she has the good fortune to meet up with some good scarecrows, tin men, and lions, and not too many wicked witches."

Meanwhile...if she's gonna go...she's gonna spend the interim time in "guitar boot camp".



AWRIGHT MAGGOT! I WANNA HEAR 50 GOOD BENDS WITH VIBRATO!!!

:D

[geekgurl]

Originally posted by Tedster To be fair, though, she just wants to move out there and hook up with some like-minded musicians. Good luck. One of the reasons I gave up on bands, even for local bar bands, is 'cuz I'm absolutely sick of everyone having their own agenda. She's experiencing that too, and I don't really expect it to be much different in L.A. Just a LOT more people with a LOT more agendas.

Yeah, I have musician friends who are actually working down in LA (me, you know, just hanging around SF). Well-meaning friends down there, on one hand, say, "You guys should play down here, I know this venue and that venue where you'd go over great!"

And they have contacts for us and everything ... but the problem is, we need to play with other bands.

Now mind you, these are more showcase/concert venues, not bars ... and even said contacts say, "Yeah, well musicians down here ... they're funny about their gigs." It's not about how good the bill is; it's about making sure you're keeping your job.

Also, my partner worked with Willie Bobo (Latin-jazz guy, if you're not familiar) back in the late 70s/early 80s. He lived in SF but flew down every week for work with the band, then lived down there ... said LA is very cliquey, very isolating if you're not in "the circle." Reports are that it's still the same.

This is more the scene in professional studio/sideman realm than a rock band "trying to make it," but this is the mentaility of a lot of musicians there, so genuine like-mindedness may be more difficult to find. So much competition means REALLY fighting for those gigs. Pay to play, anyone?

This is also recounting experiences recounted to me by others who went through it, so if anyone else has more to say from their direct experience, it could be a good collection of info to present to your daughter and her friend to do what they want with it.

Remember that song by Shawn Mullins, "Rock-a-by" (I think) where he sings that "out here, everybody's got a plan/it's kinda like Nashville, with a tan."

[philbo]

Assuming it's a mistake:
Everyone has to make their own mistakes to be able to learn. There is no other way.


Assuming it's not a mistake:
This is the right time for her to take her shot. In 5 years, she'll likely be married to either a job/career or a family, and the chance will be gone for good.

My advice: Let her go, but be there for her if she ends up needing bus fare home again.

[aeon]

Originally posted by geekgurl Also, my partner worked with Willie Bobo (Latin-jazz guy, if you're not familiar) back in the late 70s/early 80s.

Damn! Nice! Willie Bobo kicks ass!

(sorry, don't want to derail a thread filled with a father's heartache and worry, and much loving advice.)


cheers,
Ian

[Ani]

We've all known parents who have been "You've GOT to hear my kid play, they're PHENOMENAL!!!" and you hear the kid, and the kid has a LO-OOONGGG way to go. Holly's parents are like that..."Isn't she GREAT?"...well, ummmm...

 

 

Ted,

 

Tell the girls the cold, hard truth without saying a word; record them and then allow them to listen to their performance during playback. Their ears may speak words of wisdom that only their hearts can hear.

[Shars]

You know what, kids at 18 have the notion that they can do what they want whatever the outcome and who gets hurt along the way.
I also know that kids get hurt and screwed up if they just have no guideness.

I have thought about this today Ted and you've been on my mind alot and I think I can understand aswell be right there with you in this dilma, after all, I just had 2 girls tell me their pregnant.
I cant say that its right for your little girl to go along her merry way but I cant say its right that should stay either.
Maybe we need to bite the bullet and just do whats right for us and them.
As much as it may hurt now, she'll be doing her own thing in no time and then think how proud your going to be of her.
If music is something she wants to do, well Ani's advice is the best I have seen so far. Record them and let them judge for theirselves how they sound.
I also hope you get to check out the info I gave you re the Musicians Institute if shes that serious about moving on in L.A.

[Calfee Jones]

Ted -

I also have a kid (22 yr old son) living far from home, hoping to play music (very talented bass player). It has been a time of getting knocked around by life for him - he's learning lessons but not getting into any serious problems. I still worry about him alot.

My strategy has been to be supportive, but not to be overly enabling. That is - I have a cellphone national family plan - he has a phone and I do to - so we can reach each other, or he can call 911, etc. I pay for his AAA card so he can tow his car home if it breaks down. If he gets sick I will help him go to the doctor.

But I don't contribute to his rent, food, clothes, entertainment, travel, etc. And he is having to scramble to cover that stuff - and he is beginning to understand how much work it is to keep his head above water.

I think that it is most important to keep the relationship intact - because if it is cut off it will be much more difficult to help her out, or for her to ask for help.

It's really difficult to allow your kids to get knocked around a little bit by life. After all we have spent so many years trying to protect and preserve them...

I don't know your situation with your daughter, but I would be supportive of her desire - while at the same time making sure she knows that I don't think it's the best idea. I also would not pay for her air tickets or transportation out there - if she's big enough to move out there she's big enough to make the money for her transport.

But I would also make sure she has a working cell phone. And the Visa Buxx cards (www.visabuxx.com) are also an easy way to send emergency money (all 3 of my kids have them).

Above all - keep the relationship intact, that way she will always feel like she can rely on you, and that will be her best support.

[Tedster]

Yeah, it would never be my style to not keep a relationship intact...

[Johnny Storm]

Originally posted by Tedster Lindsay enjoys playing. And she's improving. But, she's by no means at the stage where she should be thinking "move to L.A. and make it".

Ted, we've all heard successful bands on the radio and TV who, technically speaking, aren't ready to "move to L.A. and make it."

[phaeton]

In addition to recording them and having them listen to themselves (they may just hear what they intend to play like, instead of what they really play like)....

Imagine this:

Sometime in the near future scoring them (or having them find) a session gig with some real, professional musicians. "This could be your break!".... Dunno bout y'all, but when I was 15 I for awhile there I thought I was some pretty hot {censored}- Till i had an informal jam with a local band that had been together for umpteen years. It was a very sobering experience. I kept turning my guitar's volume down further and further to 'hide' behind everyone else, and by the end of the set i was toadily 'off'....

They weren't mean or critical. They encouraged me to venture out, but the other guitarist's rhythm chops outdid my solos. They kept toning it down and toning it down, slowing down songs and playing simpler and simpler ones (they were a blues/jazz/ragtime/rock band) but i just couldn't hack it.

Really gave me some perspective.


I'm not suggesting a "set up" that's designed to crush their feelings. I'm suggesting a real world experience. Maybe they would be inspired to practice and become really good, and in the year or two that they do that, maybe they'll also 'grow up' a little more and have time to plan this pilgrimage to Los Angeles a little better.

Hope Something Helps...