Can Anyone Help a Broadband/Networking Virgin?

[Anderton]

Finally -- I live in a place where I can do DSL! That's the good news. The bad news is that trying to get tech answers out of any of the providers is like asking a dog about the tax code. So here's my situation:

 

I am assuming that a DSL line comes into the house and connects to a modem. At that point, I also assume that one needs to use a router to split off the DSL line to the computers that need to access DSL. I further assume that there are two ways to do this: Ethernet cables between the router and the various computers, or hooking them up via wireless. Here's what would need to be networked:

 

* My daughter's Windows XP Home machine, which has Ethernet.

* My wife's Apple iBook, which also has Ethernet.

*My XP Home laptop, which has Ethernet.

* My Windows 98SE office computer, which does not have Ethernet, so presumably it needs a card.

* My Apple dual G5, which has an Etherent port. Note that I don't need to have more than one of my computers online at any moment, so worst case is three computers accessing the DSL.

 

My XP music computer doesn't get connected to the net; I bring everything in through the laptop or office machine. I'd prefer to keep running 98SE on the office machine because from what I understand, it's much less of a target for hackers compared to XP or 2K.

 

Now, Qwest wants to rent me a DSL modem. But I see places like Office Depot have DSL modems for, what, $50 or so. Is it possible to just say to a company "Look, just get me a DSL line, I'll hook everything up myself" like you can do with the phone company?

 

Oh, and one more thing: The computers are located a reasonable distance from each other. My wife and daughter's computer are within 60 feet or so, but my office is way the hell out behind the garage, so it's at least 100 feet or more away from the other computers. But it IS close to where the phone lines come in to the house. Wireless? Long cables? Are there length limits?

 

I'm pretty close to clueless about all this. Any suggestions?!?

[valkyriesound]

Hey Craig!

 

I have a massive networked house and studio with about 15 computers and devices... once you get it all set up you'll love it.

 

DSL modem... do they let you buy rather than rent? You could go buy one yourself but if something happens to your service they won't help you. This you may just want to pay for.....

 

Sounds like you'll want a router with a built in switch. I use netgear or linksys stuff. They have great simple online interfaces to configure your settings.

 

For your main run from your office back into the house I sugget a long cable (hardwired). 100 feet shouldn't be a problem.

Wireless probably would not reach that far and if it did... everything in the house would be limited speed-wise.

 

I'm home in the afternoons and we're both on Pacific time.... call me and we'll hook you up.

 

Your personal tech support babe...

Valky

[linwood]

I've got a situation kind of like yours. I went wireless. Got everyone those little usb thingys and a router. It works perfectly. I don't think the distance will effect you at all. I can see everyone on my block's router when I open internet connect and some of those houses are down the end of the street.

[where02190]

The downsode of buying the modem is if there's a problem, you have to send it back to the manufacturer, and this can take weeks to get fixed, inwhich time you have no internet.

 

If you rent, and your modem goes down, they'll get you up and running quick, as while you are down you can be reimbursed for the downtime.

 

Go wireless, it's easy, it's fast, and especially for the laptop, well it's wireless, take the machine to any room in the house.

[franknputer]

The DSL Modem is what you need to use to "get" the Internet off the phone line. This, in turn, would hook to your router - I have a 4-port Linksys cable/DSL router, a BEFSR41, which has served me well for several years. Buy or rent the modem is your choice, but keep in mind that you need to have filters for ALL your telephones too. If you buy the modem, you'll have to buy the filters. (Not a huge expense, but a consideration.)

 

From there, you want to run Ethernet cables to each computer. You can go wireless if you like, but there's not much benefit except to laptops, unless running the wires is a pain. You can probably get a router that does both.

 

100 ft. should be no problem. I believe you should be able to go 300-400 before you start getting out of spec.

[BOOKUMDANO]

The basic map....Dsl comes in on the phone line splitter/filter the phone company gives you and then to the modem the phone company gives you. (Qwest is charging you? What a ripoff. Verizon gives them for free with install). But a linksys modem will certainly work.

 

Ethernet cable from the output of your modem to your router ( I use several Linksys dsl routers found in plentiful supply on your local Best Buy shelves). Then feed all the computers..I feed 6 of them. Get a linksys network card at Best Buy while you're at it for the win98 pc.

 

The longest cable I have from the router goes about 75 feet through a wall and to the upstairs and down a hallway. No reception problems. I had thought about going wireless for that one pc (from the router) but decided to run the cable a couple of years ago because of all the speed/security issues with wireless stuff in general.

 

The basic setup procedure... plug in dsl line to the modem. Let the modem get it's signal stabilized. When the modem indicator says a-ok, then turn on the Linksys dsl router that's connected to the modem. Let it get stabilized for a few seconds to communicate with the modem. When it's indicator says a-ok, plug in a computer ethernet line to the router (or all of them to start with). Power up a computer. It's easier to deal with one pc (Mac whatever) at a time the first time. Go online on that pc to insure you've got Internet. Pc may or may not take a few seconds to be issued an ip address by the router. Bing. You're online. Repeat for each computer. When storms etc knock your systems out every so often (here it's brownouts), just repeat the above steps. In normal use, you don't have to do anything or think about the connections at all.

 

After four or five years of dsl, Verizon just installed fios here yesterday. Which I guess is a bazillion times faster than dsl. Took em all day to run the fiber cable etc from the street. I haven't switched the pcs from the dsl connection to the fios yet. When I do, it'll be interesting to see how this fios thing is. I thought dsl was the end-all for speed.

[phaeton]

Ok... take a deep breath...

 

You have 5 computers that want to share a DSL connection. First off, ask the DSL provider if you buy a modem if it will work. Usually you can do just that. If they won't answer you call back and you'll talk to someone different.

 

Ok... so you get a DSL modem, either by rent or buy.

 

Now you need a router. Ask yourself, "Greg Anderson, do I want to have wires running all over my beautiful house?". The length limit for Cat5e ethernet cable is about 330 feet, give or take. Keep that in mind.

 

Buying pre-made cables that long is pretty expensive, but it's a guaranteed, plug -n- play setup. DIY types (and we can assume you fit in that category) can go to a Home Depot and buy a box of Cat5 cable (about $60 per 1000ft), some connectors (25 for about $30) and crimp your own. You want to make them all "straight through" like in this link.

 

 

Or, you can go wireless. Look for a wireless router called a "WAP" for Wireless Access Point. There are a bazillion on the market. I can mention the Linksys branded WAP11 Whether you choose Wireless G or Wireless B is kind of irrelevant unless you are going to be sending lots of data from computer to computer that needs to be synchronized to something. For normal everyday websurfing and/or occasional file transfer from computer to computer it doesn't really matter.

 

If you go the wireless route, then you will need wireless network cards in the computers that will connect to it. They look just like a NIC but they have an antenna on the back of them. IIRC most Apple computers made since 1954 have a Wireless NIC built-in. Wireless NICs cost a little more than wired ones. Wired ones are about $15-20, wireless ones are about $50-60 each. YMMV

 

First decide whether you want to go wired or wireless. The rest will be pretty much the same. Google for "home networking" and that might help.

 

Hopefully i haven't made things worse, and feel free to ask questions.

 

[franknputer]

One thing about wireless: check the operating frequency of the base station. Many of them operate in the 2.4 GHz range - same as many wireless phones (& other devices). They will probably not coexist peacefully - you may have to buy a different phone, depending on proximity & such. Try and buy devices that don't live in the same range!

[where02190]

I've got a building full of wi-fi and wireless phones and have no problems whatsoever.

[Anderton]

This is great! It's all making a lot of sense. I think the wired/Ethernet thing sounds good, wireless probably introduces more variables...never used wireless for my guitar on stage, either .

 

I'll check additional options beyond Qwest and see what happens. Oh, one more question: I really want to be able to stick with AOL, I've had my email address since the Dawn of Time. Qwest insists that I need to use MSN, and can then access AOL through it...but that seems dumb. Are they not leveling with me?

 

Thanks again for all your help, and Valky, I will definitely give you a call if I start blowing things up by mistake!

[Slowly]

I would rent the modem. I've had DSL(cable) for five years and I've been thru 6 0r 7 modems. Slowly

[phaeton]

Oh, one more question: I really want to be able to stick with AOL, I've had my email address since the Dawn of Time. Qwest insists that I need to use MSN, and can then access AOL through it...but that seems dumb. Are they not leveling with me?

 

Once you get onto the internet, no matter how (i.e. Qwest or whoever) you can do whatever you want or go wherever you want. You can continue to use your AOL email account and/or services if you like. You'll still have to pay AOL some fee for those- either the full fee you pay now, or they might have a 'POP Email account" option. Inquire with them.

 

The short answer is yes, you can still keep your AOL email address.

 

You can also have any Quest email accounts set up to forward to that AOL account, but chances are that anyone you care about already has your AOL address

 

I've got a building full of wi-fi and wireless phones and have no problems whatsoever.

 

Yeah, it's hit or miss. Probably has to do with what channel the phones and WiFi stuff is on. Sometimes you luck out and they're on different channels and everything's great. Most WiFi stuff you can change channels on, some phones you can change channels on, but many phones broadcast on ALL channels which causes the problem.

 

I work for a Wireless ISP and an undismissable amount of our service calls have been resolved by having the customer unplug the power to their phone's base station and taking the phone outside.

 

(The customer still doesn't believe us, but...... oh well)

[where02190]

You can keep your AOL, and in fact lower your monthy costs, as you won't be using AOL's server anymore, and pay under $5 month for it.

 

AFA the wireless thing, all our wireless phones have a couple dozen channels that they choose from automatically, or you can manually change as well, pretty standard for wireless phones these days. I've never heard of anyone having an issue with this, and I know tons of people with both wi-fi and wireless phones in their homes and business'. While yes technically there is potential, in reality it's highly, highly unlikely. Given the number of computers you're trying to connect, and some of them being laptops (which will benefit outside the house with wi-fi cards) it would probably be cost efficient as well to go wi-fi with at least some of them. Many router manufacturers make wi-fi routers that have both wi-fi and multiple ethernet lan connections, you can connect the closer computers and those (like a studio machine) that might do some big downloads or uploads via ethernet, and the rest wi-fi.

 

Another advantage, since it seems everyone has a laptop with a wi-fi card, is with the secret password you choose, clients can use your network as well.

 

It's simple to password protect on many levels for a very secure network.

[Magpel]

 

Originally posted by where02190 You can keep your AOL, and in fact lower your monthy costs, as you won't be using AOL's server anymore, and pay under $5 month for it.

 

Tell me more about this.

 

I was looking for exactly this option and couldn't find it. It seems the cheapest service AOL provides now is the 14.95/month "AOL for Broadband." Like Craig, I'm so invested in my AOL e-mail address (including things like automatic bill pay, etc.) that I'd like to avoid the nightmare of losing it, but 15 bucks a month for a mailbox and a favorites list seems extreme...

 

Maybe there's an unadvertised level or service that you have to ask for.

 

BTW, I just set up a wireless braodband network in my house with all Linksys stuff, and after a few setup hurdles, it works extremely well. I'm only using it for sharing Internet though.

[franknputer]

Re: wireless: it may seem "highly unlikely", but I can tell you that it is an issue. Had the problem at my parents' house - as soon as the wireless phone was unplugged, no more problem. Changing channels did not help. They got a new 5 GHz phone, and that doesn't interfere with the WAP.

 

Also, here at the station - we had a wireless phone in Engineering. As soon as we installed a Linksys WAP - phone messed up, had to change it out.

 

You simply can't have wireless devices trying to occupy the same space. Some better units have more options like multiple channels, but given the number of cheap wireless stuff that's sold today you have to be ready for this kind of problem. That's why I mentioned it.

[Dylan Walters]

I'd also recommend the wired route. Wireless can be hacked easily by anyone that wants to. Plus, as Phateon said it's cheap and easy. A spool of CAT5 cable, some wall connectors, and a punch-down tool will set you back maybe $100. Compare that to 5 wireless cards and the time it takes to install them, setup WAP, lock down the network, etc. If you can build guitar pedals from scratch then wiring CAT5 should be a breeze for you! My home has a Linksys Router which then feeds into an 8-port switch for additional lines.

[franknputer]

BTW - for wireless security, I'd suggest MAC-based access filtering: each network device has a MAC address, basically a unique hardware number. In the Linksys, for example, there is a page in the setup where you can keep a list of "accepted" MAC addresses. Then, only those devices will be allowed to connect to the wireless network.

 

It's more transparent to the user than a password - it just works (setting up wireless passwords is not without its problems too), and then an outsider would have to spoof the correct MAC address rather than simply hack your password to gain access.

 

Now, if you have a guest who wants to use the network then you have to add their MAC to the list - but that really doesn't take much time, and if it's not something you have to worry about on a daily basis then it may be sufficient. (BTW, it would not apply to hard-wire connections, so you could easily give visitors a wire wo plug into as well.)

[Dave Bryce]

I have both wired and wireless.

 

My broadband box goes into a 4 x Linksys router. The router feeds one upstairs and one downstairs wired computer (neither of which do wireless), and also feeds an Airport. The Airport transmits to my laptop and to another downstairs computer that was just impractical to wire.

 

My only problem is that the wireless and wired computers don't naturally see each other on networks - when I want them to talk to each other, I have to ask them to do so by using Connect To Server command and typing in the server address.

 

Sounds convoluted, but it works. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd probably go with the wireless - I love being able to use my laptop anywhere in the house.

 

dB

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by phaeton Ok... take a deep breath... IIRC most Apple computers made since 1954 have a Wireless NIC built-in.

 

I really needed that deep breath!

 

Who might have guessed there's Wireless NIC since 1954??? Oh yeah... Apple has ruled for more time than what I expected.

 

 

[rduke]

Craig,

 

I can suggest the DLink DI-604 as 4-port router/firewall. Should be available at your local office supply center.

 

Rick

[doug osborne]

WiFi works at 2.4 GHz, as do many wireless phones and the Tranzport DAW controller. Some Wireless Access Points are bothered by this (USRobotics in particular) and some aren't, but this is specifically why 5.8 GHz phones are being sold.

 

The WAP/Router/Switch should have a hardware firewall, so no worries about intrusions or hackers on your network.

 

As long as all of your computers are WXP or OSX, you should basically just have to connect them, to the router, boot the DSL modem, boot the router, and each computer should be on the network, sharing the internet connection, and printers, folders, and drives as you specify. W98 or OS9...you're on your own.

[Dylan Walters]

I dunno about Mac OS9, but Win98 should be able to work just dandy with a Soho router as long as it's configured for DCHP. You might just have to run winipcfg from the command line and do a release/renew to get it to see it, that's all.

[phaeton]

Jeesh you guys, i think we've dogpiled him with too much info

 

I'll once again agree with Dylan agreeing with me. I'm more the wired eithernet advent. I'll add that you can wire your house with Cat5 and make it as messy or beautiful as you want. There are very nice wall-plates for Cat5 and the cable comes in a number of colours.

 

Having a laptop would make having wireless in the house a bonus, but it all depends on if you want to walk around with it. You *can* secure a wireless network- don't let my tone sway you. But keep in mind you will *have* to secure the wireless network. It's not hard, and there's lots of reference material available for it.

 

And finally, you can also do both simultaneously- all the desktops wired, and all the laptops wireless.

 

I dunno about Mac OS9, but Win98 should be able to work just dandy with a Soho router as long as it's configured for DCHP. You might just have to run winipcfg from the command line and do a release/renew to get it to see it, that's all.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if OS9 could do that without any hassles.

[where02190]

OS9/windows sharing requires a thrid party app on the Mac, made by Thursby. There's two actually, either Dave or MacSOHO. I used to use SOHO for our OS9 machines and it worked great. You can mount any shared PC drive on your Mac desktop, and see the mac in the network neighborhood.

 

OSX, once all sharing privelages are set, are plug and play.

[FrankieP]

Craig,

I went the wired route myself. Took me a whole day drilling holes down the basement crawlspace and threading all cat5e wires to a Linksys router. Worked pretty good. When I get a new house in the future, i'm hoping I won't have to do the crawling anymore. I'm keeping an eye on this company's product... DeCorp DeCable . That's got to be the thinnest/flattest cable ever.