Aarrrgh! "Invalid Node Structure" on my G4!!

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm not even really looking for a solution here, just venting. Look, it's cheaper than a therapist.

 

I've been away for two months. I go to fire up my G4, and nada. Zip. Nothing. Won't boot up.

 

I boot from the System Restore Disk, open Disk Utility and hit "Repair". Instantly it says "Invalid Node Structure 4, 90 - cannot repair".

 

Yes, I know, don't even say it - Disk Warrior. No, I don't have it. I had a problem similar to this before and had reformatted the disk and moved on. The computer was operating fine after that.

 

So why now?

 

It's a HD problem, innit? An actual physical problem? Or a severe problem with the directory? I don't know. Computers are strange, enigmatic things to me. Maybe I need to sacrifice a virgin girl or a goat to get it to work again.

 

I think I'm gonna swap out the HD for a bigger one and reinstall everything, maybe get someone to help me do this. Yes, that's a good idea.

 

And yeah, I had everything backed up on an external HD, so that's not the problem. I didn't lose anything. It's just a big effin' hassle.

 

Okay, I'm finished. Grrrrrrrr....

 

Deep breaths. Stay calm.

[Anderton]

To save you the hassle of calling tech support...

 

"It's your fault."

 

[Anderton]

But seriously...before you panic, try this:

 

Turn off your computer. Open it up. If there are any connectors, PCI boards, or anything that can be disconnected, disconnect and reconnect it. You live in LA...I've had serious "dissimilar metal attacks" because of pollution in the air.

 

Now button everything back up. Turn on your computer. Let it cook for an hour or two if it doesn't boot. Turn it off, turn it back on.

 

Does it boot now? Probably not, but...after the hurricanes last year, NEITHER of my computers would boot. The humidity/heat attack for two weeks screwed things up. When I did what I described above, they both booted.

[UstadKhanAli]

Thanks. Maybe wiggling something around might help. I don't know. I'm thinking that maybe there is something physically wrong with the HD itself since I've had this problem before and already addressed it. And I could use a larger C: drive anyway...

 

But I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks, Craig!!!

[Anderton]

Don't thank me until it works

 

BUT if you THINK you need a larger hard drive, I can GUARANTEE you do!! Maybe your computer is trying to tell you something, in its own obstinate little way.

[aeon]

That error is a directory problem, and is not likely a physical issue.

 

And I know you preempted anyone saying it, but I will say it anyway...get DiskWarrior!

 

It is an amazing app, has saved my ass and client's asses many times before, and delivered when nothing else would.

 

 

cheers,

Ian

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm gonna try Disk Warrior tomorrow and see what happens, although I probably should put a larger HD in there anyway. Thanks.

[G Geezer]

dissimilar metal attacks

WBAGNFARB

[UstadKhanAli]

So I tried DiskWarrior. Very easy to use. Found lots of damage to the disk, and repaired all of it.

 

But my computer *still* won't boot up. I get a flashing "?" mark.

 

Tried booting up from the Software Restore Disk again, and poking around to see what was wrong, but didn't find anything. So I dunno....I think I'm in over my head, and I really do need a larger HD anyway, so hopefully this tech can come over and help me out. I need to get this thing going by next week.

[aeon]

What OS rev are you running?

 

If it is MacOS 9, a flashing "?" in a disk icon on boot means the firmware cannot find a valid boot volume or System Folder.

 

The status of a folder as being a valid System Folder is stored in a single bit that indicates said folder is "blessed." It can get flipped at times.

 

In any event, it is easy enough to fix:

 

1. boot from any suitable startup CD.

 

2. open the Control Panel item "Startup Disk."

 

3. select your usual boot volume/disk.

 

4. Shut Down or Restart, and eject the CD after it begins to boot.

 

The Mac should then boot like it used to.

 

If it does not, then you likely have problems with the System files themselves (assuming the actual disk structure in terms of directory and such is sorted), and this would require some degree of reinstall of the System Software itself. Thankfully, this is fairly painless.

 

If your machine is a MacOS X machine, disregard what I just said and find someone else to help you, sorry!

 

 

cheers,

Ian

[aliensporebomb]

It is very possible that what is happening could

be actual hard disk degredation. Meaning the

magnetic material is becoming unusable in

spots.

 

The ? on boot just means it doesn't see a viable

operating system to boot from and you would

need to reinstall it (not a clean install although

that would probably run better).

 

One recommendation would be to buy a new

hard disk to install in your G4, install the OS

on it and then copy what remaining data that

could be salvaged from the original drive.

[UstadKhanAli]

Thanks for everyone's help once again. I tried Ian's method, but nothing happened. I have the tech coming over at 8:00 pm. The guy is really good, he's the husband of my girlfriend's good friend, and he's gonna install a new (and thankfully, larger) HD. So after this evening, all should be good. And it will be a huge stress reliever.

 

I will probably still go ahead and get DiskWarrior because it seems like it would be a good preventive maintenance tool to run every 2-3 months or so.

 

I don't know if I have HD degradation, but given the funny things that have been happening on my computer, I would not be overly surprised. In either case, I am actually quite relieved to have someone come help me with my computer!!!! Whewwww!!!!

[MorePaul]

Probably a very wise move

 

as alien mentioned, your surface could be degrading and it generally seems to me that the failure happens in something like a lognormal progression (I don't know that it's really lognormal, but that's the general sense I get for the curve -- so treat that as more a qualitative)

 

One thing that I'm finding really cool about this forum is that if someone is having a tehcnical problem with Brand X -- we don't have some asshole engineering the solution "If you got Brand Y you wouldn't have this problem" (esp unwelcome given the HDD related nature of your problem)

 

 

(I was sort of cringing at the question for that reason and I am pleasantly surprised)

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by MorePaul Probably a very wise move One thing that I'm finding really cool about this forum is that if someone is having a tehcnical problem with Brand X -- we don't have some asshole engineering the solution "If you got Brand Y you wouldn't have this problem" (esp unwelcome given the HDD related nature of your problem)

 

 

Once in a while, that rears its ugly head, but really, this is a great forum and a true community. I've been posting on SSS for about ten years, ever since it was hosted on AOL, and it's always been a consistently *great* place to learn and share and hang out.

 

Again, thank you very much to everyone for all your help!!!!

[MorePaul]

Oh hey, if I didn't make myself clear on the progressive part

 

I've just seen the experience of people getting a couple of drive errors and try to "limp them along" by 'repairing' the data

 

you know -- you get an error

 

run a disk fixer

 

get another error

 

run the disk fixer

 

 

The problem therein is that these errors often seem to start an avalanche of errors and by the time multiple errors start really showing up, there is enough surface damage to make recovery much harder

 

That's why I think it's a wise move

 

kind of like patching a bike tube too much...after a patch or 2, just put a new tube in that bitch as something's gonna go

 

I figure you guys got the drift, but just don't like leaving incomplete thoughts (that's not to say I don't DO just that - I just don't like that I do)

[UstadKhanAli]

Philip the Mac tech came over. He used a new NetGear router than I also picked up while at the computer store, and it works really well as a wireless as well as via ethernet (how I'm using it now). I just installed it, and it's already being put to use!!!

 

Anyway, about my ailing G4...

 

Philip installed OS 10.3.7 (Panther) on my large new HD for the G4. Seems to work fine. I have a 1.33Ghz processor from OWC, but even though that's not a super fast processor by today's standards, OS X seemed to work perfectly fine.

 

AndI still have 9.2.2, which I still need to run my current version of Pro Tools, and can boot to this as well.

 

What I may do in a few months - not now - is upgrade to Pro Tools 6.4 and see if it works well with the stuff I have (plug-ins, mixes, yadda yadda yadda). If it does, I'll make the transition, and if it doesn't, then I'm out a few clams and that's about it.

 

Right now, I can boot in either OS 9.2.2 or OS 10.3.7, though. Very cool. And my new HD is 120G (the old one was only 30G), so I have a lot of room for the two OS plus tons of room for iTunes files.

 

Eventually, I'll probably buy a laptop with a wireless thingy and sit outside and work on the computer or something like that...could be very fun. Even on a day like today, which was surprisingly not too hot, and in fact, quite pleasant in the shade.

 

Thank you again for all your help, everyone!!