Members Ani Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 We have a Musician's Friend Clearance Center and Warehouse right here in Kansas City and from time to time I stop in to see what they have. Last night I paid them a visit and was not too excited about the sales help. I rarely go in unless I have the bucks in my pocket to spend; I don't have time for window shopping. When I go in, I'll usually browse for a short spell and then decide on something I'd like to inquire about. The older gentleman that KNOWS I'm one to spend decent cash in there was on the phone wrapped up in a detailed called. There were three other sales reps, two dudes and a cute chick..... they were too damned engrossed in each other to even acknowledge the fact that I walked up and STOOD in front of the counter awaiting assistance. They looked at me, but not once did any one of them say "can we help you?" I'm sorry, but I'm a proud spender and I don't believe that I should have to say.... Hey, can I get some SERVICE around this place? NOT MY STYLE!!! There are far too many other places that WANT my business. The older guy, manager I believe, was still tangled up in the phone call and I could see him looking across the floor at the three BIMBOS jacking their jaws and drooling over each other.... The manager knows that it's nothing for me to walk in there and drop $500.00 bucks on a moments notice. He has sold me everything from guitars, violins, and recording gear, to acoustical treatments. They had a pair of Gobos in there that I was interested in pricing since there was not a price on either floor item. There were a few other people in there that looked like they could have used some assistance as well, but they left when noone appeared interested in offering assistance. I'll probably call the store later on today and describe my experience. Meanwhile, I'll ask the price of the Gobos and hint about a discount....
Members Billster Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Frankly, I dislike being hounded by salespeople. I think most people dislike being hounded. Retailers do focus groups and things, and respond to the people's wishes. Not addressing a customer who approaches the counter is kind of over the top. But isn't also a bit absurd to stand there staring back at them waiting for a magical utterance of "May I help you?" Interrupt the prattle and say "Excuse me, I'd like some more information on ...."
Members BOOKUMDANO Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 .....I'm sorry, but I'm a proud spender and I don't believe that I should have to say.... Hey, can I get some SERVICE around this place? NOT MY STYLE!!! There are far too many other places that WANT my business.....----------------------------------------------------------To each his own but I have to disagree with you too. When I'm in a store, I want to concentrate on whatever it is I'm in there for. Mostly that means simpy looking at what they have while I'm deciding what I want. I want NO salespeople coming up to me. Even if...no, especially if ...they know who I am and know that I might drop a few thousand with them that day. Being catered to in that light is kinda creepy. If I can't find something...or I need to find a price, I'll go find a salesperson when I need them...and I do this little exercise...I open my mouth, form words and ask the question(s) on my mind. Then you know what? Folks give me the answers I'm looking for. (yeah, that's sarcastic but that's how creepily absurd the idea of a customer standing mute by a counter sounds to me...you feel you were making a "stand". I would look at you and think you're a complete idiot...of course I know you so well and know that just isn't true!). On the occasional trips I make to GC, the folks there are pleasant, greet you at the door etc...then for the most part, the leave me alone. Which is great. I can take or leave the friendly at-the-door greeting, but it's the part where they leave me alone afterwards that is great. On the other hand, I used to often go to several of the Wickes furniture stores around S. California. I don't know if they still do this, but each store had an intercom system that broadcast some sort of code number when a customer walked in the door....which then sent a salesperson scurrying to find you. That salesperson was obviously assigned to you as you walked in the door.....Not only that...they'd follow you around. EVEN if you nicely asked them to stop....AND, the store intercom would come on every so often, with these code numbers that signified what section/aisle any particular customer was in so they could KEEP sending the sales person to you. When a store was full of people, that intercom never stopped. It was creepy and irritating. Every time you turn around, there's that sales person off in the distance watching what you were doing. I finally had to ask if that's what they were doing because it was so obvious when I would go in there. And yep, that was their system for "service". I think Nordstrom's does something similar. Creepy.
Members Ani Posted August 30, 2005 Author Members Posted August 30, 2005 I don't like being hounded, but there is a big difference in HOUNDING someone and inquiring at least "once" to see if they need assistance. It's not like I just walked up to the counter to HEAR THEIR CONVERSATION... But isn't also a bit absurd to stand there staring back at them waiting for a magical utterance of "May I help you?" NO!!! I don't think that it's absurd at all. I work hard for the money I spend on pleasure; those people are being paid to do a job. I'll save my money for one that earns their pay. Had I not walked up to the counter, I would not have a problem with the situation in being left untended.
Members Mr. Botch Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Um, did you notice if they had any castanets?
Members Billster Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Just so I understand: 1. You literally stood there staring at the group of bantering counter clerks, waiting for what you deem a proper greeting. 2. After a certain amount of staring, you simply walked away, because you are proud, and it's not your style to ask a question.
Members BOOKUMDANO Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 .......and STOOD in front of the counter awaiting assistance.... See, to me that's creepy...for you to do. Instead of walking up, asking question, getting answer, making decision, completing or not completing transaction...you walked to the counter and STOOD? Creepy. What was the intent.... to "teach" something to those salespeople? Teach a rule of some sort? Get acknowledgement because there was money in your pocket? Teach them that you need to be catered to? Train them in your "rules" about salesmanship? For me, the purpose of the trip would've been, find gobos..get price of gobos..buy or don't buy gobos..get in my car and go do next thing on my list. I could've done that and beat you in a race to do it. And had a pleasant experience in the process because, "hey, I got to look at some cool gobos". But in your head, you're still stuck there in the store... "teaching" manners to the salespeople. In fact, by calling the store and pursuing the "experience" you're still in the "teach my rule to a supervisor on the phone today". How much do they pay you to train their people? If it were me...and no I don't work for GC...if it were me, I'd listen to your phone call today...listen to your complaint..understand your "rules"..and then when you asked for a discount quote on gobos...I'd quote you a price 10% higher than retail...with a smile! By the way...if you routinely pursue your approach in restaurants...I gotta tell you what might happen to your food. But that's for another post.
Members felix Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 I think Ani's complaint is perfectly reasonable. MF isn't paying the employees to stand around. They are there to sell. When she needed assistance, they should have provided it to her (she should not be expected to have to interrupt their conversation), and she shouldn't have had to work to get the service a customer deserves.
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 30, 2005 Moderators Posted August 30, 2005 I'm with Ani on this too. Sales people shouldn't hound. Agreed. What they should do is say something like, "Hi, just let me know if you need anything. Otherwise, have yourself a look around and enjoy." Contact! On a slightly unrelated note... I went into GC for some Sony 7506 headphones. When I asked the guy behind the counter for a pair, he directs my attention to a pair of $300 phones. I tell him I'm used to the Sony's, I've got 3 other pair of them, I just need a shiny new pair... he says, "These are way better. You need these to hear your music better". OK, why are these better lughead? "Well, they're $300! Of course they're going to be better!" I couldn't do it. I could not buy from this guy. I walked... and I still need those phones too. Mail order.
Members Murphman Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 I'm by no means defending poor salesmanship, store managing, or the like, but the other possibility is that those people weren't salespeople at all, but maybe stock, management, whatever. I spent too many years at GC (don't throw things!), a few in management, and I can't count how many times I had to tell people, "If you want to talk, take it in back." Of course, one of those people could've said, "You need help? Let me get someone for you..." but that would be exceptional customer service. Let's not get crazy here! Just throwing another scenario at you.
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 I don't like salesmen hounding me either. But what is nice is a little acknowledgment, maybe even a little "Hi, how's it going" in passing (and then, of course, they can leave me alone after that!).
Members Billster Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Felix & Lee: I will agree (see my first post in this thread) that the sales goofs should have said something, but isn't standing there staring and not willing to say "Excuse me..." just as over the edge? Like Bookamundo suggests, are you in the store to obtain merchandise and information, or are you there to teach manners? If she has some personal relationship with the store manager (trapped on the phone during this episode) that is the person to bring this up with. What does walking out accomplish? Does she still want information on the gobos? Are the jaw-flapping sales people instructed to lay back and wait to be addressed by the customer? Does the manager offer discounts to people who refuse to ask for information until greeted as desired? Was she wearing little badge that said "I will only speak upon being greeted as I deem appropriate" ? OK, that last one is silly:D
Members BOOKUMDANO Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 There you have it. One's rules will determine where one shop. If your expectations and rules are met, you'll probably shop regularly at brand x store. For GC, I would've asked "do you have 7506's?". If the answer was yes, I would've said, "ok. I'll take some." If the sales guy said, "ya gotta check out/buy these $300 alternates", I would've said, "cool, maybe I'll check it out next time, but let's write up the 7506's". If the guy insisted again, I would have again said...."cool, maybe I'll check it out next time, but let's write up the 7506's". Although I've never seen that happen in my shopping travels. Doubt the sales guy would've said "sorry, can't do it". For my part, I wouldn't have walked out of the store without my headphones ..saying "gee I just can't buy from that guy...can't do it". But..we each have our own rules. On the other hand, I've never purchased from Sweetwater. That concept of having a telephone salesperson ASSIGNED to a customer...well..to me..it's totally creepy. And an unproductive use of my time if I need pricing/info etc. Plus...I just don't WANT a retail salesman assigned to me. Anywhere. Great concept for some shoppers. Not me. I gravitate towards retailers who leave me alone so I can look at my leisure, retailers who answer my questions when I specifically ask questions, retailers who don't attempt to "qualify" my visit.
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 30, 2005 Moderators Posted August 30, 2005 I know what you're saying, and I've done what you describe many times.... but this GUY!!! I'd never heard anything so mundane and thoughtless. What really happened is he gave me a chance to reconsider my purchase. I need them / I don't REALLY need them. But I really do need them, and he repulsed me to the point of inaction. I fled...
Members Is There Gas In The Car? Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Try urinating on the floor, Ani. That'll get their attention. Is There Gas In The Car?
Members Is There Gas In The Car? Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Lee Knight I know what you're saying, and I've done what you describe many times.... but this GUY!!! I'd never heard anything so mundane and thoughtless. What really happened is he gave me a chance to reconsider my purchase. I need them / I don't REALLY need them. But I really do need them, and he repulsed me to the point of inaction. I fled... I'm in sales. I've been in sales all my life. I hate crappy sales people. In fact, I enjoy making their lives miserable. However, I will spend my last dime if I really like the salesperson. If this guy wanted to upsell me on a $300 pair of headphones, I'd crack him up side of his head and make him get the headphones I wanted in the first place. I got no time for that bullsh*t. The price of gasoline is going up to $3.00/gallon. The hell if I'm going to make a trip to the store and come back empty-handed. Please. Point me in this guy's direction and let me loose on him... measly little bastid. Tom
Members franknputer Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 So, Tom...Is there Gas in the Car?
Members Is There Gas In The Car? Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Yes, there's gas in the car I think the people down the hall Know who you are ====================== Thanks for asking.
Members daklander Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Well, to me it's obvious that, if those people were sales people they won't get far in the business.The one huge, correct, thing to do when a person enters your business/sales area is acknowledge that person's presence. That means just that. Acknowledge the prospect's presence. They will then let you know via word or body language if they need attention at that time or possibly later. That acknowldgement can be just a simple hello, welcome, may I assist you or can I help you, nothing more is needed at the time.At the same time, the customer should have a bit of class too and acknowlege the sales person's notice, then go on about their business. Ani, you mentioned you normally go in and browse for awhile before deciding on what gear to inquire about. They may well have thought you were still browsing, looking at something in their area & thinking about if you were actually interested in it. Stands to reason if that's your normal mode.You also mentioned you rarely go in unless you have extra cash to spend and that kind of contradicts the browsing remark. You may be different but if I have extra cash to spend I'm not going to go and browse to see if something strikes my fancy. I already have an idea of what I want to spend that money on so that precludes browsing in my situation. I will then compare similar products and then purchase the chosen one. You may well work differently but if you were interested in an item after spending browsing time it's up to you to then let the sales staff know you are ready. If you were just fully ignored and you know that other person is aware of you as a past, present and future customer why didn't you just do business with him? The phone is not an excuse.
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 30, 2005 Posted August 30, 2005 On the other hand, I've never purchased from Sweetwater. That concept of having a telephone salesperson ASSIGNED to a customer...well..to me..it's totally creepy. And an unproductive use of my time if I need pricing/info etc. Plus...I just don't WANT a retail salesman assigned to me. Anywhere. You know, I had a problem with that idea at first too... probably because I had a couple of issues with my first Sales Engineer... but you can always ask to have a different rep if the one they assign you isn't to your liking. Sweetwater will gladly do that for you. And there is an advantage to dealing with the same person on a regular basis... it's all about relationship. That holds true for mom and pop stores or local megamarts as well as for mail order establishments. When you deal with the same person on a regular basis, you establish a relationship. They learn a bit about your preferences, gear setup, usual preferred working methods and gear preferences, knowledge level and so forth, and can taylor their advice and assistance and suggestions to your personal needs and preferences. And you don't have to waste as much time explaining all of that all over again to someone new every time you want to get advice on a new gear purchase or whatever. Also, that sort of loyalty usually results in better deals. And if you DO have a problem, that established relationship (which is just as valuable to the salesperson as it is to you - it's easier to keep a good established customer than it is to get a new one) will usually help you insofar as after sale service and support. As far as Ani's situation, I would have said something. I would have walked to the counter and waited a few minutes - long enough for them to have noticed me and giving them sufficient "polite" time to quickly wind up their conversation (and enough time to establish in my own mind that they were not having a business related conversation ) and then I would have said "excuse me, can I get some help with a price on these goboes?" If I was STILL ignored, or given attitude, I would have marched over to the manager (cue Wizard of Oz music - "Bum ba dum ba dummm bump, bum ba bum ba dummm bump" ) and stood in front of HIM until he either put his customer on hold or told the sales crew to get off their butts and help me... I don't like being hounded either. If and when that happens, I can usually pull a few questions out of the ol' noggin' that will stump 'em and send them away... considering the knowledge level of the typical sales dood / doodette, that's usually not very hard to do. And the ones that CAN answer intelligently will usually impress me enough that I can then strike up a friendly conversation. But a knowledgeable, but pushy PITA salesperson I'll avoid. Put yourself in the salesperson's shoes for a second: They deal with "all kinds" of people. Knowledgeable pros, mom and dad who know nothing but want to get their kid a guitar, overinflated rock star wannabe egos with more ego than skill / knowledge / ability, etc. It's a fact of life that we carry a bit of responsibility in the sales equation too. You have to let them know what "type" of customer they're dealing with, and you have to find a person on the sales staff who can fit your style and preferences. Need someone patient who has a lot of knowledge and can walk you through a product with the whole features and benefits thing? Find someone who can do that. Need someone who can just give you prices and who won't hound you every time you walk through the door? Find those people and deal with them. Again, it comes down to relationships. Once you "know" who you're dealing with, and they get to know you and your preferences - not just gear preferences, but sales and purchasing methods and preferences, you'll be a lot better off IMO. Ani, I'd go back and discuss what happened, and your dissatisfaction, with the manager. Remain calm and polite, but tell them why you were displeased and that you feel you should be able to expect better service in the future. But I certainly wouldn't hesitate to interupt a non-business related conversation to ask for a price on something. But that's just me.
Members Billster Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Botch Um, did you notice if they had any castanets? What are castanets?
Members Ani Posted August 30, 2005 Author Members Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by felix I think Ani's complaint is perfectly reasonable. MF isn't paying the employees to stand around. They are there to sell. When she needed assistance, they should have provided it to her (she should not be expected to have to interrupt their conversation), and she shouldn't have had to work to get the service a customer deserves. Thank you Felix! I am not an intrusive person. The three employees did not ONCE cease their discussion among each other to acknowledge the fact that a customer was standing at the counter. Looking my direction only told me that they were aware of my presence; it didn't tell me that they were available to assist. The rudeness in their continued conversation let me know that they were simply not interested in making a sale or even bothering to inquire if I needed something; they were too busy running their mouths non stop. They were actually behind the counter, so it was easy to assume they were in sales; most generally stock personnel do not have access to areas with registers so I took it for granted that they were in sales. I refuse to hand someone a commission for indolence and poor salesmanship; especially when there is another sales rep that is tied up on the phone that I know offers great customer service that I can return to at a later time. What does walking out accomplish? Does she still want information on the gobos? As I stated in the first comment, I don't have time for window shopping.... nor do I have time to waste. I don't have a lot of extra time for doing a WHOLE LOT of things and I had no idea how long the other guy would be on the phone. I had somewhere that I needed to be by a certain time and I didn't feel like pushing it to the very last minute HOPING the other guy would become available. I passed by his area several times, over a period of about 20 minutes, and he appeared to be in some sort of troubleshooting discussion on the phone. He acknowledged me by eye contact with a sigh of frustration and a shrug of his shoulders to let me know he had no idea how long he would be. Those types of discussions can lead into a lot of time. There are at least 3 or 4 sales reps that work there that know I buy a lot of gear there, and without hesitation, if any one of them are available they swing by and tell me to let them know if I need anything or to call them when I'm ready; they are putting their bid on a sale, IMO. Even if they are tied up with a customer, they will usually nod to acknowledge me and sometimes they will even offer a comment like, "I'll check in on you the first chance I get." I don't HAVE TO BE hounded, but it's nice to know that there are SOME PEOPLE interested in customer service when I need to inquire. When the "right" people are on staff, I don't HAVE to say a word... nor do I even have to approach a counter and stand there waiting for them to take a breath in between words. I am allowed to shop in peace, and yet, those sales reps that know me by sight will usually watch from across the floor and then approach me when I show a sign of interest in a product. I can usually look up from where I'm standing and make eye contact and have a sales rep at my service within moments... if the right ones are available. Some of you folks can call it creepy, or think that I'm being too precious, or whatever.... I'll stick with the sales reps that show customer courtesy and respect. I'll also choose the ones that are there to "REPRESENT" the company they work for and the products that they sell. I won't go SEEKING someone interested enough, or interupting casual conversation, or begging for someone to assist me in spending my money... I DON'T HAVE TO.... NEVER HAVE.... WHY SHOULD I START NOW???
Members Billster Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 So you're the angel of commissions, determining who is worthy of writing a sales slip? Do you know for a fact that there is a commission? You spent 20 minutes trying to be visible and exchanging glances with telephone guy? Perhaps the others thought you were already processed to him and they weren't going to swoop in on his action. You didn' t have a lot of time before you had to be at another destination, but you spent 20 minutes circling around instead of opening a direct communication?
Members BOOKUMDANO Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 ....And there is an advantage to dealing with the same person on a regular basis... it's all about relationship...--------------------------------------------That line..as a concept..only goes so far for me. I like the concept of an assigned doctor. And dentist. That's really useful for me. But I don't need an assigned salesperson at Ralphs when I go in to buy groceries. That's a creepy concept. Same for equipment of any flavor. I don't need an assigned rep ..whether at Guitar Center or Home Depot.
Members Robman2 Posted August 30, 2005 Members Posted August 30, 2005 MF's distribution warehose is NOT a retail store... You've been clerked...
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