Despair

[Poker99]

Production rather than consumption Digital technology has already democratized the recording process--what used to take tens of thousands of dollars and a professional studio can now be accomplished with a laptop and a free program like Garage Band or Audacity. The results usually don't sound as good, but the experimentation process is fun, and sometimes a gem emerges. Digital technology and the Internet have also made promotion and distribution far easier than they were a decade ago. By 2020, music fans will spend almost as much time creating and sharing recordings with their friends as they do listening to professionally recorded music. Don't believe me? Think of this: 10 years ago, writers were a comparatively rare breed. Now, everybody's got a blog, or at least a Facebook page. In another 10 years, everybody will be a musician--or at least a recording artist.

 

:facepalm:

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10422428-27.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=News-DigitalMedia

[Poker99]

The fact that so many people at shows are busier taking photos of themselves and texting friends than listening to the music suggests to me that they want to be stars themselves. They want to put their own mark on their music experiences. As technology gets better, more people will create music. As Matt says, it won't necessarily be good music, but I don't think people want to be passive fans anymore. Just as they upload lots of photos they have taken themselves, they will upload music they have created, even if the process involves not much more than a cut-and-paste effort. Given the choice between listening to what someone else has created and creating something that they can call their own, I think a lot of people will choose the latter. The technology will enable them to create passable music with little or not talent. All you will have to do is program what you want and the software will create it for you. People will be able to create a "sounds like Dylan" or "sounds like the Beatles" song, tell the software the subject matter, the instruments, etc., and the result will be something they can call their own. And maybe they will have to do this multiple times to get exactly what they want, but as the software improves, they will be able to do it.

 

Almost scary!

[Dancebass]

google: versificator

[BlueStrat]

 

Given the choice between listening to what someone else has created and creating something that they can call their own, I think a lot of people will choose the latter.

The logical result of 20 years of the 'self esteem' generation. You wonder what kind of person would rather read their own blogs than read Steinbeck or Hemingway. Answer: nearly everyone under 30. We've created an echo chamber of mediocrity.

 

 

 

The technology will enable them to create passable music with little or not talent.

You mean we aren't there now?

[Poker99]

The logical result of 20 years of the 'self esteem' generation.

 

We can't critisize, we're old. We just don't understand. Everything is better now than 10 or 20 years ago. Get with the times or die, old fart! Our time is done.

 

Now everyone's special.

[BlueStrat]

We can't critisize, we're old. We just don't understand. Everything is better now than 10 or 20 years ago. Get with the times or die, old fart! Our time is done. Now everyone's special.

 

 

 

 

The News from Lake Wobegon

 

Each week, Garrison Keillor shares with listeners the latest news and views from the little town where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."

[tacdryver]

This came up on nightline or something about the Film industry...that everyone is a director, a producer, or film maker...that most of the product out there is getting cheaper, and cheaper...

 

That fact is, more people have access to being creative and getting out thier art..that's a good thing...we have much more choice now...Desperado, Blair Witch, etc ect,...were made on shoestring budgets, accessable technology, and tons of creative talent..

 

If you don't have talent, your {censored}ed..simple as that...but if you do, there is no reason that you can't be heard and seen, you don't need to get signed, get discovered or need that big break.

 

There have never been a better time to be a musician or filmaker then now...as the big outfits, drop 100 mil on a picture, you drop $10,000 and if you have talent, your movie might actualy make more money...

 

What does it take to mix your own music, videotape it, put it on you tube or Itunes...talent...without a serious cash investment...

 

So cheer up...everyone is in the game now, the playing field has been leveled...you can go as far as you want to.

[Poker99]

Wishfull thinking imo...

 

Talent is drowned in an ocean of crap. I can't discover great new bands by myself on the web, there is just too much crap, and so little time. I still need filters, but they no longer exist.

[Toto99]

I think the article is totally exaggerating the issue. The analogy with facebook is totally spurious. One of the reasons why facebook, myspace and twitter are so popular is because they provide instant gratification for people who want attention / praise for doing very little. Uploading photos or leaving comments takes what, about 2 minutes? The process of recording music is the polar opposite and is still very time-consuming, regardless of new technology and advances in music software. I'm not saying the number of recording artists is not going to increase in the future, but I just don't think it will be as exponential as the article suggests. Anyone can make a recording, but few can re-produce such flawless performances live.

 

I sometimes get a similar feeling every time I watch my Yngwie Malmsteen DVD, although for the opposite reason. I think, "why bother playing guitar when I will never be as good as him". But I just think, even Yngwie had to start somewhere. If you're good and confident in your skills and you're willing to put in the hard work, it shouldn't make a difference whether it's 500 or 1 million unsigned people recording music. If you're not confident in your own skills and you're not willing to put in the hard work, you will always find excuses as to why you're not successful.

 

.

[BlueStrat]

 

The process of recording music is the polar opposite and is still very time-consuming, regardless of new technology and advances in music software. I'm not saying the number of recording artists is not going to increase in the future, but I just don't think it will be as exponential as the article suggests. Anyone can make a recording, but few can re-produce such flawless performances live.

IMO, the point the article is making is 1) quality of recording is becoming increasingly irrelevant as they are played on increasingly poor mediums ( ipods, cell phone speakers, laptop speakers, etc) and 2) recorded music can take on a life of it's own, going viral quite apart form any live performance. I find it kind of ironic that as more people enter the DIY market, the more willing they are to judge bad recording as acceptable. It's what they're used to hearing. Why else would so many pass around such poor quality crap as promo?

 

One other thing I might add: live performances are getting {censored}tier all the time, too, with more bands performing publicly with less time together, using cheaper gear, playing undeveloped and unproven original songs, for smaller crowds.

[michael_B]

Add to that the fact the most people really do NOT want to hear anything new, unless they are forced to on the radio or some absurd youtube video starring cats or babies, or both.

 

I made my first "home produced" disc in 2002. Thought I was really going somewhere...got some nice write ups, the ego got a little boost, but not long after that I realized the sad reality, people don't want to hear it, even if you have "talent", or whatever passes for "talent" in your chosen genre of noise making.

 

Can someone stand out? Sure, but I don't think the home recording boom made things easier for anyone. Sure the playing field has been leveled, but you're on the field with a billion people with cheap audio interfaces and webcams.

 

Really, who cares? I do it because I love it. If people listen, then fine, if not, oh well.

[Dancebass]

 

video starring cats or babies, or both.

 

 

YOU MY FRIEND ARE A GENIUS!!!

 

I'm going to borrow some babies and get rollin today!

 

Do you have to pay babies scale?

[eventArgs]

some absurd youtube video starring cats or babies, or both.

You have no idea how many of these I had to watch with my gf the other night Fortunately I was drunk.

 

Didn't come across much new music though... in most cases:

• Cat videos feature the meows of whichever cat is being tormented

• Baby videos have old cliche love songs

[3shiftgtr]

Oh waaaaaaaaaa:cry:

 

Sorry we can't all be rock stars.

 

Actually, it's the BULL{censored} is going away. You either get in the game to make bank, or to make art these days. All the middle ground where folks got in the game to live some shallow lifestyle, are keeping their job at Sears.

 

The era of there actually being a market for 'rock musicians' and small and medium bands is going away. We are blaming it on tech. Rock music is just not the thing it once was popularity wise. Tech just amplifies the lack of market.

 

Hiphop and rap took over, and once something comes along to overtake hiphop and rap....rock will be alot like jazz; a historical artifact. I have a friend who is an indie rapper. Works the southeast and southwest. Makes great money....plays white clubs, and black clubs and is living like a 80's cock rocker on a bus. That scene is doing well. Whereas the rock market is just flat and it's only gonna go down from there.....

 

Let 'em all play, I don't give a {censored} anymore....Does Carrie Cubicle and Tommy Trailerpark's ability to now make music threaten the integrity of my art? Nope. I've got my six fans.....

[tacdryver]

You have no idea how many of these I had to watch with my gf the other night Fortunately I was drunk.

 

...then you rode her like Seabiscuit afterward...so what's the problem...?

[Jesse G]

Who cares

[PSM]

 

Oh waaaaaaaaaa:cry: Sorry we can't all be rock stars. Actually, it's the BULL{censored} is going away. You either get in the game to make bank, or to make art these days. All the middle ground where folks got in the game to live some shallow lifestyle, are keeping their job at Sears. The era of there actually being a market for 'rock musicians' and small and medium bands is going away. We are blaming it on tech. Rock music is just not the thing it once was popularity wise. Tech just amplifies the lack of market. Hiphop and rap took over, and once something comes along to overtake hiphop and rap....rock will be alot like jazz; a historical artifact. I have a friend who is an indie rapper. Works the southeast and southwest. Makes great money....plays white clubs, and black clubs and is living like a 80's cock rocker on a bus. That scene is doing well. Whereas the rock market is just flat and it's only gonna go down from there..... Let 'em all play, I don't give a {censored} anymore....Does Carrie Cubicle and Tommy Trailerpark's ability to now make music threaten the integrity of my art? Nope. I've got my six fans.....

 

 

I hate to admit it, but in the back of my mind I know there is a bit of truth to this statement regarding rock music not being the main thing anymore. Will it ever totally go away? Probably not, especially anytime soon (for example, classical music has been around for hundreds of years and still has a fanbase, albeit a very small one compared to popular music).

 

It becomes pretty evident when you look at something as simple as Myspace plays. Take a band like Nickelback that's about the biggest rock band in the world right now. When they come out with a new, big radio hit that's plastered everywhere, you go to their Myspace page and by the end of the day they'll have maybe 100,000 plays. When they're between albums and off tours, it drops to maybe 60,000-70,000.

 

Now compare that with any pop/hip-hop/rap star that has a big song out and is being plastered on all the stations, TV channels, websites, etc. They'll be at a solid 500,000 to 1,000,000 plays per day. Hell, right now at 10:30 in the morning, Nickelback has 10,000 plays today and Lady Gaga has almost 200,000. The current biggest rock bands in the world don't hold a torch to the big pop/rap stars popularity-wise.

 

The only thing I can still say for rock bands over pop stars is that from what I've seen, they tend to retain loyal fans longer, even if new albums and songs aren't pushed as hard as previous ones. With pop music, if you're not being pushed at the moment past your first album or two, you're out of it until someone big decides to push you again, and that's a rare occurrence.

[Dancebass]

 

regarding rock music not being the main thing anymore.

 

 

Do not kid yourself into believing that this is NOT by design. There are cultural reasons for what gets plugged into the big media machine and what does not. There are individual people that make these decisions and they often have agendas. Example: "Rock music is SO sexist, what we really need is a big rockstar chick! YEA that would be awesome! Let's get that Alannis chick in the studio with some rock producers and kick some ass!! That'll sure shove it up the old-boys networks butt!!"

 

Let me go with Nickelback for a moment. Nickelback, Daughtry, Three Doors Down, etc. These bands are all the same to me and they are NOT rock bands and they never have been. That music is "adult contemporary" with a light smattering of distorted guitars buried in the mix under the chorus. I was looking at the TV the other day and they had an American Idol thing on. They showed videos back to back of last years winner Chris Allen and then a Daughtry video. The song structure, the vocals, the tempo, almost all of it was identical. Aimed at the "Star 94 Light" FM crowd. The only separating factor was a tiny little sliver of distortion on the chorus guitars for Daughtry and yet that is classified as "rock" where Allen isn't.

 

If the "rock" music that gets plugged into the system is going to be that watered down, then NO, it will never make a comeback. Rock music is still and has always been driven by 16 year olds. I've said this before and I'll say it again. WHAT THE {censored} DOES 3 DOORS DOWN OFFER A 16 YEAR OLD???? Nothing!!! There is no fire, no passion, no danger, no risk. Nothing to upset your parents in the least little way! They are safer than a {censored}ing day at Chuck-E-Cheese!

 

Ok. I'm not saying I'm a fan, but let me use Marilyn Manson for the opposite side of the coin. That dude was already selling out arenas before he ever received ANY big media push. Virtually zero airplay. Sure his career is winding down now, but the truth is, that guy shoved it down their throats before they ever gave him the light of day. He was a {censored}ing FREAK that made kids {censored} their pants and they LOVED it!! That's an example of from the bottom up rather than the top down {censored} that gets pushed.

 

I'm 37 years old and even I'm more entertained by Lady GaGa's silly ass costumes than the new Shinedown single.

[3shiftgtr]

 

Do not kid yourself into believing that this is NOT by design. There are cultural reasons for what gets plugged into the big media machine and what does not. There are individual people that make these decisions and they often have agendas.

 

 

So true. I've been in meetings in Nashville where the reasons for signing an artist were about the personal positioning of the exec, not the music. BUT...there are still A&R guys out there looking for rock acts. And not finding any.

 

Rock has morphed from the 'dangerous' music that the young kids danced to in the 50's, to music that you listened to and freaked out at in the 60's, to giant spectacle in the 70's, to video/visual friendly music in the 80's, to splintered and manufactured sub genre's in the 90's (grunge,alt, rap-metal etc) to the subjugation of the rock genre as a whole in the 00's.

 

And the question is what's next? It won't be massaged by the labels cuz the A&R guys NEVER find it. It finds itself. It will bubble up in some basement with some tech toys that are so affordable. And it will become a phenomenon unto itself.

 

And it probably won't be called rock either.......

[sabriel9v]

 

Let me go with Nickelback for a moment. Nickelback, Daughtry, Three Doors Down, etc. These bands are all the same to me and they are NOT rock bands and they never have been. That music is "adult contemporary" with a light smattering of distorted guitars buried in the mix under the chorus. I was looking at the TV the other day and they had an American Idol thing on. They showed videos back to back of last years winner Chris Allen and then a Daughtry video. The song structure, the vocals, the tempo, almost all of it was identical. Aimed at the "Star 94 Light" FM crowd. The only separating factor was a tiny little sliver of distortion on the chorus guitars for Daughtry and yet that is classified as "rock" where Allen isn't. If the "rock" music that gets plugged into the system is going to be that watered down, then NO, it will never make a comeback. Rock music is still and has always been driven by 16 year olds. I've said this before and I'll say it again. WHAT THE {censored} DOES 3 DOORS DOWN OFFER A 16 YEAR OLD???? Nothing!!! There is no fire, no passion, no danger, no risk. Nothing to upset your parents in the least little way! They are safer than a {censored}ing day at Chuck-E-Cheese! Ok. I'm not saying I'm a fan, but let me use Marilyn Manson for the opposite side of the coin. That dude was already selling out arenas before he ever received ANY big media push. Virtually zero airplay. Sure his career is winding down now, but the truth is, that guy shoved it down their throats before they ever gave him the light of day. He was a {censored}ing FREAK that made kids {censored} their pants and they LOVED it!! That's an example of from the bottom up rather than the top down {censored} that gets pushed. I'm 37 years old and even I'm more entertained by Lady GaGa's silly ass costumes than the new Shinedown single.

 

 

You're right. The principles of rock n roll are steeped in danger and controversy. Kids liked music that was loud and oppressive, it was different from what their parents enjoyed. Overall, I'm not sure if it's the job of "rock n rollers" and rock musicians to make an elaborate comeback and suddenly sweep people off their feet again. I think that hip hop and rap already did that in the late eighties and early nineties, but soon that will fade and move into another direction. My only concern is that the music industry as a whole has become so segmented and isolated that when this new and innovative genre is waiting to galvanize the youth, half of them won't even be present because they'll be occupied by their other interests, listening to other media sources and probably unaware of this entire phenomenon that could be happening. It will be (and has always been) the duty of the people who are the movers and shakers and have already made it to the top, it will be their duty to clearly state to kids why it's cool to be involved in whatever movement.

 

I remember when I was younger, my best friend and I were huge fans of those old Shaw Bros movies and cheesy kung fu flicks. We already knew about Gordon Liu, old school Jackie Chan, Sam Seed and many other martial arts stars before the other kids at school. But it took someone like Quentin Tarantino and the Wachowski Brothers to introduce martial arts flicks to the world. The same is going to happen in music.

[paulz]

 

. But it took someone like Quentin Tarantino and the Wachowski Brothers to introduce martial arts flicks to the world.

 

 

woah, I don't know about the rest of the stuff, but I cant agree with that - maybe 4 somebody now in their 20s, but guys in their 30s and 40s grew up with chopsaki without Quentin

[flatfinger]

One issue w/the whole bedroom producer phenom is the old saw.....

 

" Jack of all trades ;Master of none "

 

 

Just because digital gave access to gear does'nt mean a console is going to run itself ... tracks don't mix themselves . There was a collaboritive system , where individuals specialised and concentrated on their feild of endeavor.

 

 

People still need others to give them feed back (during the process ; not after ) .

 

The producer would tell the ( already splitting there enegyes after the singer/songwriter phenoninum) artist that " that song is too much of an immitation ; try innovation instead .

 

Working in a bubble ( in between working hour , with whatever energy is left over) trying to do it all is not a recipie for quality .

[BlueStrat]

I remember when I was younger, my best friend and I were huge fans of those old Shaw Bros movies and cheesy kung fu flicks. We already knew about Gordon Liu, old school Jackie Chan, Sam Seed and many other martial arts stars before the other kids at school. But it took someone like Quentin Tarantino and the Wachowski Brothers to introduce martial arts flicks to the world. The same is going to happen in music.

Ever hear of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris, biggest martial arts film stars in the world in the early 70s? Or David Carradine, who had a hit TV show called Kung Fu in 1972-1975? Martial arts films were all the rage the world over in the early 70s.

[daddymack]

historical perspective...its what's for dinner...

[danosongs]

That's all irrelevant.

 

Scale is still the deciding factor and THE real precious commodity now.

 

No amount of proconsumer app toys can replace it.

 

The "following" is still what matters - basics.

 

But now it is the number of blog or podcast subscribers.

 

We are not in the music business anymore...

 

we are in the content and personality business.

 

This is entertainment and branding.

 

KISS is thriving because of this for example.

 

Look at the kissonline.com alexa rating for God's sake!!

 

Tell me I am not crazy!?