First tour?

[Doggers]

Hey guys.

So i am graduating from HS in june and i am planning on going on my first tour with my band shortly after that.

As it being my first tour, would it be wise to use an agent for booking or i should do that myself. Ive done some local shows, battle of the bands, etc

ideas ?

[LAPennell]

Well, I'll point out one obvious...

 

The more you can book yourself, the less you have to pay someone else.

[EvelynMartin]

I totally agree on that the more you do it

yourself the less money you will spend on paying

someone else..

 

[BlueStrat]

Hey guys. So i am graduating from HS in june and i am planning on going on my first tour with my band shortly after that. As it being my first tour, would it be wise to use an agent for booking or i should do that myself. Ive done some local shows, battle of the bands, etc ideas ?

 

 

Wait...you're planning on doing a tour, or you want to do a tour? Planning implies you have dates booked.

 

A few questions:

 

Why are you touring?

Do you have a strong local/regional following?

Where do you plan on playing?

How long do you plan for the tour to last?

Do you have reliable transportation?

 

You'll probably have to do DIY. Very few agents are going to want to book an unknown band with no track record.

[Doggers]

 

Wait...you're planning on doing a tour, or you want to do a tour? Planning implies you have dates booked. A few questions: Why are you touring? Do you have a strong local/regional following? Where do you plan on playing? How long do you plan for the tour to last? Do you have reliable transportation? You'll probably have to do DIY. Very few agents are going to want to book an unknown band with no track record.

 

 

well planning in my mind meaning you are working on booking places. want does not describes a feeling. for me, making it is a reality.

but going to your questions.

I want to tour to earn money and earn fan base. and get life experience out of it.

i have worldwide following with 250,000+ plays on just myspace and growing every day. I plan on touring wherever they take me haha.

I plan on touring for roughly a month month and a half tops.

Yes, i will either use my car, or lease another one...o.O...

[//()()]

 

well planning in my mind meaning you are working on booking places. want does not describes a feeling. for me, making it is a reality. but going to your questions. I want to tour to earn money and earn fan base. and get life experience out of it. i have worldwide following with 250,000+ plays on just myspace and growing every day. I plan on touring wherever they take me haha. I plan on touring for roughly a month month and a half tops. Yes, i will either use my car, or lease another one...o.O...

 

 

Not to rain on your parade, but that doesn't mean anything. You can have "friends" in every city in the world. If they don't come see you perform, they don't count.

You should expect to draw at MINIMUM 50 of your own people to the show in each city you go to for it to be even worth considering touring.

 

Your pretty much asking for financial failure. If you're rich and just want a "good time" (which may not turn out as good as you think) then go for it if you can convince venues to let you play. Don't expect to make money though at your level.

 

Edit: To put this in perspective on the MySpace thing... I was once in a band when MySpace was at it's peak (before everyone left) and we had 800,000+ plays and 90,000+ friends. We did a tour on our coast and only about 12 people from each BIG city showed up.

Internet people are flakes unless you've built a real relationship with them. You know, more than an artist/fan relationship.

[BlueStrat]

 

I want to tour to earn money

Good luck with that. Most tours lose money, or AT BEST break even unless you've been doing it a long time. Most unknown touring bands bleed cash like a slaughtered cow.

 

 

and earn fan base

Good luck with that, too, unless you make repeated trips to markets. But you gotta start somewhere. If it were me, I'd develop a big fan base at home, then within 50 miles, then 100, then 200 before I took off down the road. If you can do that, they'll be approaching you to do concerts and events and then you'll have some juice to build a tour on. But things are different from when I toured, so maybe it's what you gotta do now.

 

 

and get life experience out of it.

You will definitely get that, and probably not much else in the beginning, but like I said, ya gotta start somewhere.

 

 

i have worldwide following with 250,000+ plays on just myspace and growing every day.

No, you don't have a "worldwide following. " You have a bunch of people who have listened to your tracks. Come on, now. How many tracks have you listened to in the past few years? How many of those bands have you even bought music from, let alone gone to see? How many of them do you consider yourself a 'follower' of?

 

It may be great for the ego to think that people all over the world are listening to you, but they aren't going to help you one tiny bit when you're playing that dive bar in Enid, OK of Bufu, Idaho. You need people in THOSE places to come and see you, and getting them out is a lot harder than getting people all over the world to listen to you. I got airplay in Norway, high-watt stations in Illinois, Seattle, Portland, California, OK, etc. But not one of them has helped me on regional tours. That's why developing your regional marketing startegy is of supreme importance.

 

 

I plan on touring wherever they take me haha.

This may be funny on the surface, but it's a critical point, IMO. Playing just anywhere is a waste of time, money, and resources. Even getting popular in some placxes isn't going to do you any good. Getting popular in Orofino, Idaho or Victorville, California is going to net you not much if anything. And because touring costs money, and humans like to eat, wear clean clothes, have money for gas, gear maintenance, car breakdowns, etc etc, you need to maximize your potential for profit and minimize your expenses. That means getting booked into clubs that have consistent crowds, an opportunity to build a fan base, and minimizing the distance between cities.

 

I know the idea of touring is a romantic one when you have never done it, especially when you're young. But the reality can be quite different, and be no fun at all if you don't take a little time to develop a strategy and build your regional market first. Especially if you live in the western US, where towns are few and far between.

 

I don't want to talk you out of touring. I want to talk you out of touring half-assedly or before you're ready for it, because this is what kills the dream for a lot of young guys-going out before they're ready, getting creamed, and saying 'to hell with this!' when a little patience would have made all the difference in the world. You should tour because you have a smoking hot band that has potential to go somewhere, and because you've built enough of a following regionally to show you that you're onto something. If you can't draw 50 people fairly consistently on a Saturday night in a 200 mile radius of home, maybe you should re-think your strategy. I can't trhink of a single business where a product is rolled out in test markets, it fails to sell, and the producers of it say "Well, clearly, we need to go national!"

 

Anyway, good luck!

[Poker99]

I have nothing to add... Listen to Blue, kid!

[goodsound]

yeh... starting noting after BlueStrat - its worth to have his tips for future!

[humancertainty]

BlueStrat has some excellent advice, as usual.

I just read this yesterday and got a laugh out of it.

http://chunklet.com/index.cfm?section=article&IssueID=2&ID=41

It's funny cause I've been through so many of those situations and it's so true.

Anyhow, I've been touring since I was 20. The first FOUR or FIVE years were financial losses of the highest order. It was in {censored}ty vans as old or older than me. It ruined a lot of friendships with former band mates. I starved. I dressed in clothes that didn't remotely fit me because I had to dig them out of a free box after all of my {censored} was stolen 1,000 miles from home. I taught myself how to change a transmission on the side of the road 2,000 miles from home. I ate food out of dumpsters. I slept on floors that may have never been cleaned. I drove 16+hours straight on multiple occasions to play to the other bands on the bill and no one else. I ate Top Ramen for two months after I got home. I lived in the van once when I got home because I couldn't afford to keep a room while I was gone.

I tour now more than ever and I still love it. I loved it at the time for that matter. They were definitely formative experiences and they made me appreciate what I have all the more. However, they were not for everyone. Or most. Out of all of the people I toured with in those first five years, be they my band mates or bands we toured with, only two of them still tour. And it's for one to two weeks a year, maximum. Including myself, that's about 6% still pursuing it in any fashion. It's hard and it can wear you out.

As BlueStrat asked, why do you want to tour. Are you planning on making a life out of this? Is it just a hobby to do before you go off to college? Give up the illusions of financial success. At the very least, for the time being. {censored} your MySpace counts. They don't mean a thing.

Honestly, I feel no need to encourage people to start touring just because they want to tour. With the advent of the internet and cell phones, the circuit has gotten far too crowded with bands that should not even be playing local shows or are just "having a life experience" on spring break the year before their mommy-and-daddy-funded college degree come in, they obediently step into marriage and a corporate career, and regale their poker buddies on Saturday night about how they "toured with a rock band once".

I'm not implying that you are on of those types. But make sure you know what you're getting yourself into.

And plan on booking it yourself. Any booking agent who will work with an unknown group with no following is almost certainly just a crook preying on the naive.

[paulz]

i have worldwide following with 250,000+ plays on just myspace and growing every day.

 

I don't think the count can shrink can it ?

 

My advice, order the eggs.

[Poker99]

Honestly, I feel no need to encourage people to start touring just because they want to tour. With the advent of the internet and cell phones, the circuit has gotten far too crowded with bands that should not even be playing local shows or are just "having a life experience" on spring break the year before their mommy-and-daddy-funded college degree come in, they obediently step into marriage and a corporate career, and regale their poker buddies on Saturday night about how they "toured with a rock band once".

 

[daddymack]

Doggers, just another wrinkle..if you are under 21, touring may be a major problem for you in most states, a I suspect you were thinking to play clubs/bars, but where the drinking age is 21, that may prevent you from playing.

You have a lot of research to do.

Plus, as others have said, going 'on tour' when the band is not selling out locally is generally the last thing to consider.

Also, how solid is the band? Because the road breeds DRAMA. You think you know your band mates? You will learn to hate them after a few weeks...

[Redsand187]

 

I want to tour to earn money and earn fan base. and get life experience out of it.

 

Pick one, if you are really lucky you might accomplish two, neither of which will be earning money. :poke:

[paulz]

 

Pick one, if you are really lucky you might accomplish two, neither of which will be earning money. :poke:

 

 

p_Tf2lQvDz0

[Doggers]

Well First of all i need to address a few things. First of all I have a solid fanbase I think, i stay in touch with them, talk to them, have promos for them. etc. In addition, blue and a few other people said the problem with touring is that you lose money....Well thats a mistake on their part to be honest, bad accounting, bad gigs, bad maintenance of money pretty much. I read Indie band survival guide, and music business 101. Two great books anybody interested in the industry should read. They pretty much demonstrate that RIGHT now is the best time to be a musician, because you dont need backing of a large label. In addition. I am under 21...but what about teen clubs etc. As for relationship between the groups, people ive known are really good friends,. my hype man is my best friend for 7 years. lead singer is my close lady friend... So so far its 4 of us...now so pretty much if we get payed roughly $500-750 per night i feel its a pretty good split. Roughly 100 bucks for gas, 100 bucks for food. 100 bucks for hotel stays and everything else goes as profit. To be honest, from what i see the main problem is that people cant manage their money? So any other comments after my new info ? By the way thanks for all the help so far

[Doggers]

ohhh i forgot to mention that I run my own clothing company (no offense intended to make me seem cocky...just forgot to talk about it) And I was going to bring a lot of merch with us and sell during the shows...additional profit can be coming from there. Plus i will have my second CD out by then so people can buy that too...does that help at all or not really o.O

[BlueStrat]

I read Indie band survival guide, and music business 101. Two great books anybody interested in the industry should read.

Oh, well, in that case, disregard everything we said. If you read it in a book, how can you possibly fail?

 

.if we get payed roughly $500-750 per night i feel its a pretty good split.

Do you know any unknown bands making $500-750 a night playing teen clubs on the road? I sure don't. Most seasoned cover bands in hard liquor bars around here doing 4 hour gigs don't make that on weekend nights. You're going to make that much 5 nights a week at underage gigs playing for an hour?

 

Roughly 100 bucks for gas, 100 bucks for food. 100 bucks for hotel stays and everything else goes as profit.

Sounds good on paper. Too bad reality is such a bitch.

 

To be honest, from what i see the main problem is that people cant manage their money?

What I see the main problem is too many kids with stars in their eyes hit the road with no clue as to what gigs actually pay, how much travel actually costs, and without having a backup fund or plan.

 

What do you do when you show up to the gig only to find out a.) it's been canceled, b) it's been shut down for illegal activity, c) it's double/overbooked, d.) they have you down for tomorrow night, not tonight?

 

What do you do when you blow a tire, which costs 100 bucks to replace? Or an axle, or a tranny, or....

 

Do you really think you're going to put 4 people up in one motel room a night for 4-6 weeks? Ha ha ha! That's a recipe for homicide. Especially if one of them is a chick.

 

I could go on and on; your 'plan' has more holes in it than a cheese grater. But I won't. You're going to do what you want to do anyway, so....

 

FULL SPEED AHEAD!

 

 

Good luck! You'll need it.

[Doggers]

No its not a joke. Why should it be one....to be honest I always saw it as, if you are good at your own craft, you will get the pay/reward it deserves.

[Doggers]

 

Oh, well, in that case, disregard everything we said. If you read it in a book, how can you possibly fail? Good luck! You'll need it.

 

 

to be honest your trying to turn this into an insult now. I came here for help and you cant accept simple fact of bad accounting, and maybe you were part of it too. To be honest I run my own successful clothing company so I am not worried about accounting for it, Like i said I feel like I have a chance to be a chance to be the next "star" and i am planning on getting planned for my craft. I came here for overall advice. but it kinda just feels like people are saying that its hard for it to be a success. But look at never shout never, tiesto, emergency 911, lights, owl city etc. they make it on their tours. why cant we?..the small guys.

[BlueStrat]

 

to be honest your trying to turn this into an insult now

Not really. I just think it's funny, no it's frigging HILARIOUS, that you don't know {censored} about touring or what it costs or pays, but you want to argue with guys who have done it extensively, and imply that we're saying what we're saying simply because we're {censored}ty with money.

 

Who's the one being insulting here, son?

 

And you still didn't say WHY you even want to go on tour, and what is going on with your band that justifies it. But never mind. You'll probably just pull some bull{censored} rationalization out of you ass for that, too.

[Doggers]

Done and failed? I just read the story of the guy who ate from garbage cans. To be honest, i've been part of gigs that payed few thousand for a few hours (wedding gigs) ive done mobile djing, and i can tell you easily that a mobile DJ can make 500 bucks or even more from a club gig. I can also tell you a lot of things, to be honest your not giving me enough credit for what I have done with my music. Honestly, I can see myself equal to a person like DJ Tiesto in less then a decade. SELLING OUT arenas. Honestly you can never judge a book by its cover. I just want you to picture this, the upcoming summer (summer i am going to tour) and i come back to the forums and tell how ive made it...how would that make you feel. Honestly I feel insulted my friend.

[Doggers]

Yes I did, but i guess you are too wrapped in your own personal thought that you missed it.

[Redsand187]

Well First of all i need to address a few things. First of all I have a solid fanbase I think, i stay in touch with them, talk to them, have promos for them. etc. In addition, blue and a few other people said the problem with touring is that you lose money....Well thats a mistake on their part to be honest, bad accounting, bad gigs, bad maintenance of money pretty much. I read Indie band survival guide, and music business 101. Two great books anybody interested in the industry should read. They pretty much demonstrate that RIGHT now is the best time to be a musician, because you dont need backing of a large label. In addition. I am under 21...but what about teen clubs etc. As for relationship between the groups, people ive known are really good friends,. my hype man is my best friend for 7 years. lead singer is my close lady friend... So so far its 4 of us...now so pretty much if we get payed roughly $500-750 per night i feel its a pretty good split. Roughly 100 bucks for gas, 100 bucks for food. 100 bucks for hotel stays and everything else goes as profit. To be honest, from what i see the main problem is that people cant manage their money? So any other comments after my new info ? By the way thanks for all the help so far

If you can get gigs that pay 500-750 a night in a cities 1000 miles away from home with no radio play or big advertising you'd probably already be signed to some deal and have someone doing the work for you, and still making no money.

 

Think about it from a promoters view. Would you pay someone 750 dollars who might bring out if they are VERY lucky 50 people, (In reality, probably 10 people would be extremely lucky) to your show, on a bill with someone else.

 

What benefit do you, as a promoter, get from paying this band to open for your act? Could you easily find someone for 250 bucks to do the same thing? (Yes, the answer is ALWAYS yes)

 

A promoter might guarantee you 100 bucks, if you are lucky. You might be able to get a piece of the door, if you are really lucky and you draw a good crowd.

 

Now figure most people/fans won't pay more then 10 bucks to see a show of a few of bands they haven't heard of other then on myspace. If you are coming from far away you will be the opening act, and the least priority. Which means, if you were to split the door, you might get 2 bucks of that 10. To make 500-750 bucks you'd have to play to 250-350 people.

 

Now think how many places do you know of that have 250-500 people crowds every night? There are very few places, even in BIG cities. If for some crazy reason you are able to get a gig in one of those venues, which there are probably only 100-200 in the entire country that are that strong, most of which are down the street from one another. Of those places that have that big of a crowd EACH night, how many do it with bands from across the country that have no draw other then their website?

 

So say you play one of these rare clubs each night, but you aren't playing in the same market. Out here on the West Coast you have Seattle, 200 miles away is Portland, 650 miles away is San Francisco, 400 miles away is Los Angeles, 120 miles away is San Diego, 325 miles away is Las Vegas, 250 miles away is Phoenix. That's about 2000 miles which correlates to about 40 hours of DRIVING, 600 dollars in fuel at least 500 dollars in dive motel rooms, 700 dollars in food, add in misc expenses, not including renting a reliable van, trailer, paying at least one crew member, phone expenses, the drummers bail, entertainment etc.... you need to make 2000 dollars a week just to break even. Add in all those expenses and you are easily at 4000 a week.

 

About the only way to make this work would be somehow being able to open for a band that is already touring. But chances of you doing that without any representation is slim to none.

 

If you think you have such a good following and really think you can do this, reality will hit when you try to book a show. If your following is as strong as you think you should have no problem having your fans getting you the gigs you want. If you have 100 fans in Denver bugging a promoter, you might actually get the Denver gig. I don't think that is too likely.

 

However, if you really just want to get out there and have some fun meet some people, play some music, see the country, you might be able to do it. Consider most touring bands are lucky/happy to get enough to pay for gas. They eat off of merch sales. They sleep on the floor of crazy people's houses, or in their van.

 

A good fan base will support the cause. Most successfully-unsuccessful touring bands get care packages (containing gift certificates, clothes, cash, necessities, snacks, etc..)while on the road from fans. These bands will tell you how important these are and how grateful they are. Most bands touring the country playing decent sized gigs get them with the help of their fans. Do you have fans/street team members that will promote you for the weeks before your show? Is your street team talented and connected? Who designs promotion material? Who gets it made? Who hands it out? Who do they know? Can they bring 50 people? Can they get you on a local bill? Do they work with the local promoter? Having 250,000 fans listening to your music isn't nearly as valuable as having 50 fans that can do all of the above.

[BlueStrat]

Done and failed? I just read the story of the guy who ate from garbage cans. To be honest, i've been part of gigs that payed few thousand for a few hours (wedding gigs) ive done mobile djing, and i can tell you easily that a mobile DJ can make 500 bucks or even more from a club gig. I can also tell you a lot of things, to be honest your not giving me enough credit for what I have done with my music. Honestly, I can see myself equal to a person like DJ Tiesto in less then a decade. SELLING OUT arenas. Honestly you can never judge a book by its cover. I just want you to picture this, the upcoming summer (summer i am going to tour) and i come back to the forums and tell how ive made it...how would that make you feel. Honestly I feel insulted my friend.

 

Yeah, you're right, I was being a dick, and I didn't have to be. Apologies.

 

Now go set the world on fire.