Members Poker99 Posted November 24, 2009 Members Posted November 24, 2009 http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/nov/23/sweden-music-sales-filesharing-crackdown
Members Dancebass Posted November 24, 2009 Members Posted November 24, 2009 Civilized society understood the value of public executions!
Members DeuceyBaby Posted November 24, 2009 Members Posted November 24, 2009 Civilized society understood the value of public executions!
Members Poker99 Posted November 24, 2009 Author Members Posted November 24, 2009 Civilized society understood the value of public executions!
Members Kramerguy Posted November 24, 2009 Members Posted November 24, 2009 this is good news. Proof that actually creating and enforcing realistic laws can curb behavior. Nice to see it's not ALL doom and gloom when it comes to the future of music. If only RIAA and congress could come up with an equally effective approach that doesn't fine one person millions for doing what is in essence speeding.
Members DeuceyBaby Posted November 24, 2009 Members Posted November 24, 2009 piracy makes too much money for the recording industry in america for it to be stopped yes you read that right there are teams of lawyers on every major waiting to sue youtube after the riaa is done with them
Members Kinetic Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 this is good news. Proof that actually creating and enforcing realistic laws can curb behavior. Nice to see it's not ALL doom and gloom when it comes to the future of music. If only RIAA and congress could come up with an equally effective approach that doesn't fine one person millions for doing what is in essence speeding. There's no proof of that. Given that a) the Piratebay is still there and b) there have been no mass prosecutions in Sweden I'd suggest that the rise of music sales is down to some other factor. It may be fear of prosecution and if that's the case then expect sales to decrease again next year as people realise they're unlikely to be caught.
Members IKH Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 this is good news. Proof that actually creating and enforcing realistic laws can curb behavior. Nice to see it's not ALL doom and gloom when it comes to the future of music. If only RIAA and congress could come up with an equally effective approach that doesn't fine one person millions for doing what is in essence speeding. I don't think that I would compare stealing to speeding, however an appropriate punishment needs to be addressed.My thoughts are 1) severe financial penalty for those responsible for creating the medium making the files available2)fair market value restitution for all pirated material, payable to the rights holder ,(by all involved parties) as well as loss of source hardware,ie. computer, phone, etc. You are stealing, which makes you a thief. This is not good for the industry, or the artists., And I am willing to bet that you would be the biggest and loudest crybaby when a CD is stolen from your car,house,backpack ,or whatever. There is no difference.
Members Kramerguy Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 I don't think that I would compare stealing to speeding, however an appropriate punishment needs to be addressed.My thoughts are 1) severe financial penalty for those responsible for creating the medium making the files available2)fair market value restitution for all pirated material, payable to the rights holder ,(by all involved parties) as well as loss of source hardware,ie. computer, phone, etc.You are stealing, which makes you a thief. This is not good for the industry, or the artists., And I am willing to bet that you would be the biggest and loudest crybaby when a CD is stolen from your car,house,backpack ,or whatever. There is no difference. You clearly have misread what I typed. I'm the staunchest advocate against illegal downloading on this forum. I don't do it and I don't support anyone who does. Second- In every case study ever done, the more severe the punishments throughout the world have always coincided with the most severe percentages of crime - Including the death penalty. When you threaten people with everything to lose, people become fearless that they have nothing to lose. Make fines small and realistic, or better yet, community service, or having to work the debt off to the very record companies that a person stole from would be a more apt punishment. Taking away someone's computer for using it to illegally download a song is not a viable or fair solution. Do you take someones car if they pumped gas and didn't pay? For all the negativity, the OP cited an article that plainly states what actions were taken, and what the measured results were. You can argue the semantics all day long about what facets did or didn't work, but in the end, you can't argue against the fact that it did work.
Members IKH Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 Yes, perhaps taking the hardware from the one who illegally downloaded a song is too severe, but taking it from the person responsible for making it available seems fair to me.Also here in NH anyone under the age of 21, or it may even be 24, caught speeding has their license revoked for 90 days.
Members Matximus Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 You are stealing, which makes you a thief. This is not good for the industry, or the artists., And I am willing to bet that you would be the biggest and loudest crybaby when a CD is stolen from your car,house,backpack ,or whatever. There is no difference. Whatever. I wouldn't give a spit if someone stole one of my CD's: I've got them all backed up digitally and most of them are reburns of friend's records anyway. I think that's the point. The information is and wants to be free. No way to stop it. I agree with speeding guy too. Ripping free tunes - at the worst - is just about as bad as jaywalking, or maybe not cleaning up your dog poop. I was thinking about this too: You know what the great thing about stealing music on the internet is as a music fan? (Aside from getting awesome stuff for free, of course). No matter how badly you hurt the industry, people are still going to make great music. Cause it's a passion, you know? If you keep stealing some guy's wooden chairs, he's gonna stop making them because he'll go out of business. But musicians are weirdos. The good ones aren't motivated by profit. Of course, they wanna make money. But they're going to keep churning out great stuff whether they are making money on it or not. Cause they just have to keep creating. It's beyond money. It's brutal and wrong, I know. But it's kind of funny too. We can keep stealing and stealing and stealing and they're never gonna stop putting out great tunes. Art is funny like that. And if you look at it like that there really is no downside to ripping free tunes.
Members IKH Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 We can keep stealing and stealing and stealing and they're never gonna stop putting out great tunes. Art is funny like that. And if you look at it like that there really is no downside to ripping free tunes. OK so you're a thief and you think it's funny. You should be careful with that attitude though. It may come back to bite you someday.
Members richardmac Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 We can keep stealing and stealing and stealing and they're never gonna stop putting out great tunes. Art is funny like that. And if you look at it like that there really is no downside to ripping free tunes. So you are saying that artists can have their budgets slashed to zero and it won't affect the music? If you're John Mayer, you don't use a top notch band, you don't record using great equipment, you don't hire a great engineer. You don't have it professionally mastered. Instead, you use GarageBand and a MacBook. It will sound just as good? That's crap. Or maybe he's supposed to take his touring money and put 100 K into a recording that he's going to give away for free. Professional albums cost money to make. If they don't sell them, they don't make them professionally and everything gets done with loops on laptops. It's not going to sound as good.
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 Cause they just have to keep creating. It's beyond money. It's brutal and wrong, I know. But it's kind of funny too. We can keep stealing and stealing and stealing and they're never gonna stop putting out great tunes. Art is funny like that. And if you look at it like that there really is no downside to ripping free tunes. man o manechevits....there are really no downsides because the artist is, by your words, "burtalized" and "wronged"? Kinda funny? Wooo weee... If I read your post right, it is saying ......MUSICIANS ARE SUKAZ!!!!! ME AND A BUNCH OF OTHERS ARE GONNA KEEP KNOCKING YOU SLAPDICKS AROUND AND YOUR ARE GOING TO LIKE IT!!!! SUKAZZZZZZZZ!!! And that makes me sad for you and your mindset....you're completely desensitized: you have your free media so {censored}ALL! Nahh....not me.....
Members Kramerguy Posted November 25, 2009 Members Posted November 25, 2009 Whatever. I wouldn't give a spit if someone stole one of my CD's: I've got them all backed up digitally and most of them are reburns of friend's records anyway. I think that's the point. The information is and wants to be free. No way to stop it. I agree with speeding guy too. Ripping free tunes - at the worst - is just about as bad as jaywalking, or maybe not cleaning up your dog poop. I was thinking about this too: You know what the great thing about stealing music on the internet is as a music fan? (Aside from getting awesome stuff for free, of course). No matter how badly you hurt the industry, people are still going to make great music. Cause it's a passion, you know? If you keep stealing some guy's wooden chairs, he's gonna stop making them because he'll go out of business. But musicians are weirdos. The good ones aren't motivated by profit. Of course, they wanna make money. But they're going to keep churning out great stuff whether they are making money on it or not. Cause they just have to keep creating. It's beyond money. It's brutal and wrong, I know. But it's kind of funny too. We can keep stealing and stealing and stealing and they're never gonna stop putting out great tunes. Art is funny like that. And if you look at it like that there really is no downside to ripping free tunes. What do you mean "wants to be free"??... thats a load of {censored} even you couldn't defend, at least successfully. We've had this argument before. You only care about yourself. We get it.
Members mikeoxlong Posted November 28, 2009 Members Posted November 28, 2009 records have become more of a band advertising or media investment these days instead of an actual product.
Members dylanrwilliams Posted November 30, 2009 Members Posted November 30, 2009 That's an interesting thought mike
Members Alt-me Posted December 7, 2009 Members Posted December 7, 2009 This is the single most arrogant post I have ever read. Reminds me of the 'cheeky' notes that Jack the ripper would send to the police. After reading your 'perspective' on this, I don't feel like making music... If this is the general attitude of potential fans, then {censored} this. Whatever. I wouldn't give a spit if someone stole one of my CD's: I've got them all backed up digitally and most of them are reburns of friend's records anyway. I think that's the point. The information is and wants to be free. No way to stop it. I agree with speeding guy too. Ripping free tunes - at the worst - is just about as bad as jaywalking, or maybe not cleaning up your dog poop. I was thinking about this too: You know what the great thing about stealing music on the internet is as a music fan? (Aside from getting awesome stuff for free, of course). No matter how badly you hurt the industry, people are still going to make great music. Cause it's a passion, you know? If you keep stealing some guy's wooden chairs, he's gonna stop making them because he'll go out of business. But musicians are weirdos. The good ones aren't motivated by profit. Of course, they wanna make money. But they're going to keep churning out great stuff whether they are making money on it or not. Cause they just have to keep creating. It's beyond money. It's brutal and wrong, I know. But it's kind of funny too. We can keep stealing and stealing and stealing and they're never gonna stop putting out great tunes. Art is funny like that. And if you look at it like that there really is no downside to ripping free tunes.
Members //()() Posted December 7, 2009 Members Posted December 7, 2009 After reading your 'perspective' on this, I don't feel like making music... If this is the general attitude of potential fans, then {censored} this. Seconded. {censored} that. The "fans" like that guy can forget hearing it. If you want to hear it, you can come over to my house and I'll turn on the stereo. I'll charge you by the minute like those late night phone lines too. 1 minute of music at my house, $10. Bet you wish you bought it on iTunes now huh? Good luck stealing it. It's not a boost to my ego at all to know that some random person online heard my music or loves my music so much that they aren't willing to buy it, so keeping it off the internet and away from tards like him won't be a problem.
Members Matximus Posted December 8, 2009 Members Posted December 8, 2009 Your reactions are valid; Both of them. I don't appreciate being called a turd, but yeah, I was being an arrogant prick. I don't know if my perspective is a general attitude. I mean, clearly millions of millions upon people have no qualms about stealing music. They all have their reasons. I gave voice to at least a couple of mine. Maybe I'm doing you two a favor. If either of you are serious about making a career in music you should understand what you are up against: It's {censored}ing brutal. All creative fields are. The entertainment business? Forget about it. My cheeky little rant is going to be among the more minor offenses you're going to encounter as you try to turn a buck as a musician. So yeah, it's best to confront this fact sooner rather than later: Your recorded music is free now, whether you want it to be or not. You can do the sensible thing and stick to being a hobbyist. Or you can lock yourself at home like funny symbol guy. Or you can man up and make sense of this brave new world.
Members Chumly Posted December 16, 2009 Members Posted December 16, 2009 Technology and art are both transient. Like it or not, this dual transience ensures there can't be a lasting status quo.
Members soundwave106 Posted December 16, 2009 Members Posted December 16, 2009 The "fans" like that guy can forget hearing it. If you want to hear it, you can come over to my house and I'll turn on the stereo. I'll charge you by the minute like those late night phone lines too. 1 minute of music at my house, $10. Bet you wish you bought it on iTunes now huh? Maybe musicians should start taking up the art market route: finding eccentric billionaires who love to have "conversational pieces" on the wall, and persuading them to fund some exclusive pieces. The only problem with this method is that most of your profits are generated after your death. I have heard of these anti-piracy measures aimed at the ISPs. This, along with a credible subscription method, will work some to stem piracy (mostly the type of piracy that anyone can do. And that's all that will happen -- IMHO, as long as big labels can stem *easy* piracy, they'll be happy.) Nevertheless, I am always amused by piracy discussions on music forums, in part because piracy won't affect most of the musicians here. It's a convenient scapegoat for other problems resulting from the ever-expanding entertainment option and other factors. My guess is, most musicians here are more likely to get screwed by a record company over royalties vs. have sales actually impacted by piracy (and even the likelihood of a musician getting signed and then screwed over is relatively low). I remember one time posting an Economist article about big business musings, which didn't go over well. People don't care about the big biz here. So why do they care about piracy? Piracy is a big music biz problem first and foremost. Even at the indie level it's a dual edge sword (that "exposure" vs. "record sales" quandrum) and most musicians aren't indie type. Most people are probably more affected by the consolidation of media killing off local / regional acts, as well as various laws that make it tougher for entertainment venues to exist. Yet people get more pissed at piracy than Clear Channel or legislatures. Wrong problem, people.
Members Chumly Posted December 16, 2009 Members Posted December 16, 2009 Agree wholeheartedly Mr. soundwave106!
Members sabriel9v Posted December 16, 2009 Members Posted December 16, 2009 Most people are probably more affected by the consolidation of media killing off local / regional acts, as well as various laws that make it tougher for entertainment venues to exist. Yet people get more pissed at piracy than Clear Channel or legislatures. Wrong problem, people. You're right, this is a bigger problem that is more relevant to our interests. However, the free music and illegal downloading debate is all over the media and the status of small entertainment venues and clubs is rarely discussed.
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