Members Jotown Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Flier And how about Willie Nelson? - does he get "blacklisted?" I don't think so. That's why I think the Dixie Chicks are just using this issue as a publicity stunt. If their career isn't doing so well maybe it's just because people aren't into their music (unlike Steve Earle and Neil and Willie). For starters Steve Earl, Willie Nelson and Neil Young haven't gotten played on country music stations (or any stations for that matter) for a long time. Steve Earl has always been outside of the mainstream, Willie Nelson hasn't had a contemporary hit in years and Neil Young isn't even country. Also; the DixChix have sold ten times more records this year than any of those guys even without country airplay. The reality is that their careers aren't going so hot while the Chix are red hot even while being blacklisted by country radio. And I am not a Chix fan, but a fan of free speech and someone who is very much against McCarthyistic tactics against any one. I hate to say this Lee but you have gotten several facts wrong in this thread; yet you keep going back to your misconceptions about this story. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Jotown For starters Steve Earl, Willie Nelson and Neil Young haven't gotten played on country music stations (or any stations for that matter) for a long time. I know - please read my post again. That's exactly what I said (so far as country stations). They do still get airplay actually, but not on mainstream country stations. Yet they still have vibrant active careers and nobody seems to be moaning that their free speech has been violated. They're just aware that politically and musically they're outside of the country music mainstream, so they don't expect to be accepted in those circles. Also; the DixChix have sold ten times more records this year than any of those guys even without country airplay. The reality is that their careers aren't going so hot while the Chix are red hot even while being blacklisted by country radio. Well then, again - why is anybody complaining that the DC have been so wronged? And I am not a Chix fan, but a fan of free speech and someone who is very much against McCarthyistic tactics against any one. Me too, and I've said so. I hate to say this Lee but you have gotten several facts wrong in this thread; yet you keep going back to your misconceptions about this story. Why is that? The only "fact" that I can see I've gotten wrong is that I was willing to believe (based on some of what's been said here) that the Dixie Chicks' career had suffered recently because of continued blacklisting. I was taking some of you guys' word for it because I simply haven't been following their career recently - I've never liked them enough to care how much they're selling. So notice I said "IF their career is flagging." Apparently now you're saying it isn't. Yet you said earlier in this thread: Originally posted by Jotown That a small group of people could literally take away their only means of getting their music out and in effect taking away their ability to make a living is a big deal. It seems that when I made my original point that I felt the importance of this issue was exaggerated and that the Chicks were doing fine despite having been so "wronged," you and others claimed their career had suffered because of the blacklisting, but when I said maybe it was flagging (IF it was) for other reasons, now y'all are saying they're doing just fine. So which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Well I just dug up the NY Times article that blue quoted and it has some other very interesting stuff in there. The Nashville establishment is not politically monolithic. The most depressing thing about this whole episode is the way the Dixie Chicks have conflated politics and culture, Bush supporters and "rednecks." The unintended implication is that only sophisticated city folk oppose the war in Iraq, and only "rednecks" support the president. Faith Hill and Tim McGraw, country music's most popular couple, made headlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jotown Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Flier The whole thing just smacks of BS to me, sorry, and that's why no, Craig, you're not the only one who thinks it's much ado about nothing. You are a good debater but you still play fast and loose with the facts. People have explained the cronolgy of what has transpired her (as have I) so I am not going to explain it to you again. You have called this contrived (when it clearly wasn't) you have called it a publicity stunt (when it clearly wasn't) you have combined statements and events that happend three years apart and you still don't want to coment on the fact that before the success of this CD it was blacklisted by country radio; only then did anyone make a free speech connection to this story. Again; you have a clear bias here and if you don't care about this why have you posted so many times; Craig hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Jotown You have called this contrived (when it clearly wasn't) you have called it a publicity stunt (when it clearly wasn't) you have combined statements and events that happend three years apart and you still don't want to coment on the fact that before the success of this CD it was blacklisted by country radio; only then did anyone make a free speech connection to this story. Again; you have a clear bias here and if you don't care about this why have you posted so many times; Craig hasn't. I stand by my earlier statement (page 3? I'm not looking.) This whole Dixie Chicks kerfuffle is contrived to the degree that an off-the-cuff remark to a concert audience was exploited into a Rolling Stone cover story, etc., etc. I'm not doubting their convictions, I'm doubting the need to keep it in the front of their marketing machinery. Originally posted by Jotown the fact that before the success of this CD it was blacklisted by country radio; only then did anyone make a free speech connection to this story. What does that mean? How can it be a free speech connection when the CD is successful (in terms of sales and media coverage) despite being "blacklisted"? :confused: Again, the whole "blacklisted" thing is being played up in the media appearances in print and everywhere else. Has anyone seen an op-ed piece in the NY Times or anywhere similar about how these ladies are being crushed by government censorship? I could stand on a street corner and claim I'm being blacklisted by Clear Channel, and people would say I was crazy. I could stand in front of a horde of Entertainment Weekly and People magazine reporters and make the same claim, and suddenly it's gospel. What's going on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Exactly Bill. That's my feeling also and I've been saying that all along. I understand "the chronology" Jotown; that doesn't have anything to do with my point whatsoever. And what sort of "bias" are you talking about? Just because I don't agree with you means there must be some sort of agenda behind it? As to why I've posted so many times, I already answered that too: I think the thread turned out to be more interesting than the actual subject. I don't care about the Dixie Chicks and I don't think their "problem" deserves the attention it gets, but I do find it interesting to read what others have had to say about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LiveMusic Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Flier And how about Willie Nelson? He's written protest songs out the wazoo with a decidedly left wing bent He has? Can you enlighten me? (I'd really like to know.) I found this CNN link which mentioned two songs. "Jimmy's Road," Vietnam-era song, and "Whatever Happened To Peace On Earth," 2004 Christmas song with an anti-Bush slant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by LiveMusic He has? Can you enlighten me? (I'd really like to know.) I found this CNN link which mentioned two songs. "Jimmy's Road," Vietnam-era song, and "Whatever Happened To Peace On Earth," 2004 Christmas song with an anti-Bush slant. Yeah, and the Christmas song never got any airplay. He didn't expect it to; he never even tried to get it on mainstream radio because he knew it wasn't going to fly. It's around on the Internet though, and on a few compilations put together by the Democratic Party and various leftwing organizations. He's written a lot of songs like that over the years, and not released them in the mainstream. The guy has always been an active environmentalist and also an activist for Native American rights, and he's pissed off a lot of people in the process, and been arrested several times at protests, along with his pal Kris Kristofferson who's been active in the same causes with him. I personally saw quite a bit of this because I used to do a lot of volunteer work on reservations, and with environmental groups. Willie's been in actual trouble with the government WAAAYYY more than the Dixie Chicks and gotten far less media attention for it, kind of like when John Lennon nearly got deported in the 70's, and was branded a subversive and spied on by the Nixon administration for being a peace activist. That, friends, is real suppression of free speech. I guarantee you Willie Nelson has experienced it, and the mainstream media has been mostly silent about it while prattling on about inconsequential stuff like this Dixie Chicks thing. That's another reason it pisses me off that anybody takes the DC thing seriously - I see it as a convenient smokescreen to hide a lot of much worse stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fantasticsound Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Jotown For starters Steve Earl, Willie Nelson and Neil Young haven't gotten played on country music stations (or any stations for that matter) for a long time. Steve Earl has always been outside of the mainstream, Willie Nelson hasn't had a contemporary hit in years and Neil Young isn't even country... Talk about getting your facts wrong! Willie had a big hit with Beer For My Horses with Toby Keith. For a goofy song, I only wish it was someone other than Toby Keith. Forget his politics. I've been around the man enough to know he has a huge chip on his shoulder I'd rather not deal with. But Willie had plenty of airplay off that one. #1 on the charts tends to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ani Posted June 13, 2006 Members Share Posted June 13, 2006 Jotown, Willie also played a role (Uncle Jesse, I believe) in Dukes of Hazard with Ms. Jessica Simpson.... I didn't watch the movie, but I would venture to say that the movie was pretty much a mainstream attraction for a while. I'm not an avid fan of Wilie Nelson, or country music in general for that matter, but I have seen Willie in concert and he puts on a great show; he definitely knows how to entertain an audience. Even though I'm not into his style of music, I will admit that the man is a legend and will not soon be forgotten. Lee, Sorry to hear that Willie has been under scrutiny for his activism for a good cause; same with Kris K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimbroni Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Willie Nelson hasn't had a contemporary hit in years Because he's been too busy making great albums, like Teatro. Willie is one of the Masters. Hits are for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Ani Jotown, Willie also played a role (Uncle Jesse, I believe) in Dukes of Hazard with Ms. Jessica Simpson.... He also participated singing with Jessica in Nancy Sinatra's cover of "These Boots Were Made for Walking", for that movie's main theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jotown Posted June 14, 2006 Members Share Posted June 14, 2006 Man has this thread wandered way off track. I am a big fan of Willie Nelson and not a fan of the Dix Chix in any way. But you cannot compare their success in the last 9 or 10 years. The Chix have been huge and gotten massive airplay (until recently) and Willie has not. That he scored a hit 4 years ago in a duet with the loudest voice of support of the War and GWB in country music (Toby Kieth) by the same stations that have blacklisted the Chix reinforces the main point here. Blacklisting and free speech. But you can't compare the commercial success between Willie and the Chix in the last ten years regarding radio airplay and record sales (not that it has anything to do with this topic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VotaIdiota Posted June 15, 2006 Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 Originally posted by Jotown And I am not a Chix fan, but a fan of free speech and someone who is very much against McCarthyistic tactics against any one. I hate to say this Lee but you have gotten several facts wrong in this thread; yet you keep going back to your misconceptions about this story. Why is that? You're the one accusing the situation of having McCarthyistic tactics, when it's simply not true. Privately-owned stations are deciding what they will play. When a House commitee (pretty sure I butchered THAT spelling) is formed to investigate a possible red menace within the country music establishment, and subsequently coerce Nashville to not give work to certain sympathizers out of fear of legal action being taken against them by a government entity... THEN you can say it's McCarthyistic tactics. As long as it's simply privately-owned radio stations deciding what they will and will not play, it's nothing of the sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rique Posted June 15, 2006 Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 Wow! This thread has been revived more times than Michael Myer in a Halloween movie. It just keeps going and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoreGuitars Posted June 15, 2006 Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 I don't think Clear Channel gives a crap about politics, they care about money. Here in LA the hottest topic on talk radio is immigration. One station KFI, is very vocal against it, the leading Mexican station is catering to the illegals. Clear Channel owns them both....They don't care about the issue, they are just servicing their individual stations demographics, which as a business is well within their rights. I bet if there was a large enough anti-country movement in America, Clear Channel would swoop it up and make The Dixie Chicks the cornerstone of their "new" station. But there isn't, and because of this, the Dixie Chicks might be in no mans land of a fan base. (Not country, certainly not Rock). I know their album is selling OK, but the tour ticket sells have been very disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rique Posted June 15, 2006 Members Share Posted June 15, 2006 Originally posted by MoreGuitars I don't think Clear Channel gives a crap about politics, they care about money. Howard Stern was making Clear Channel plenty of money but I guess politics won out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted June 15, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 Originally posted by Rique Wow! This thread has been revived more times than Michael Myer in a Halloween movie. It just keeps going and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VotaIdiota Posted June 16, 2006 Members Share Posted June 16, 2006 Originally posted by Rique Howard Stern was making Clear Channel plenty of money but I guess politics won out. No, business still won. CC stood to lose a lot of money with Stern. He was a huge liability for them once the FCC started clamping down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoreGuitars Posted June 17, 2006 Members Share Posted June 17, 2006 Originally posted by Rique Howard Stern was making Clear Channel plenty of money but I guess politics won out. Howard Stern was not on Clear Channel, he was on Viacom owned by CBS. CBS is a mess. They are more political than Clear Channel, as evidenced in Dan Rather's attempt at sabotaging a presidential election . Dumb on many levels. Clear Channel probably would not have let a cash cow like Stern leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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