Members pjrake Posted June 18, 2009 Members Posted June 18, 2009 so i got my band's name on the Google Alerts, and i get an alert this morning: http://killthekidsfirst.blogspot.com/2009/06/charetta-defying-inevitable-2009.html it looks like someone took our album, ripped it, and post it on a blog with a link to download the album! :mad: at least we got 3 out of 4 stars under the review section -PJ
Members Kramerguy Posted June 18, 2009 Members Posted June 18, 2009 Cease and Desist order. Entertainment lawyer is a must. I'd even go as far as suing the host, just to take one more of these people down.
Members stopthebus Posted June 18, 2009 Members Posted June 18, 2009 At least you got noticed. There are much bigger things to worry about than this.
Moderators daddymack Posted June 19, 2009 Moderators Posted June 19, 2009 Contact the host of the site and request that they not only remove your material, but that they censure the person who posted it illegally. Like any other host, they are required to verify clearance to post copyrighted materials...and are required to take action when notified of a violation, or they become liable as well.
Members bostonwal Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 I'd ask the guy to put a link to your myspace site instead of having a download of your stuff. You want bloggers talking about you favorably and pointing to your music, but they should be pointing to a site that is under your control not theirs.
Members pjrake Posted June 19, 2009 Author Members Posted June 19, 2009 thanks for all the replies. we're meeting with our manager this weekend and i'm gonna bring a printout of this thread and share with everyone. will keep you guys posted. thanks again! -PJ
Members bcolburn Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 Hey PJ, I'm new on here, but I had to deal with a similar situation before (Project Playlist) -- so first off, hey! and second off, maybe this'll help: If you goto the "mediafire" download link that the blog posted -- you can proactively remove the file from mediafire, before any more people get their hands on it. On the lower right hand side of the page (under all the "embed" codes) there's a link that says REPORT THIS FILE. You can then have the file removed from MediaFire -- but the post on the blog will still remain (therefore giving you guys some more exposure, but not giving away your work!) I hope that helps some! Good luck! - Brian
Members Matximus Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 so i got my band's name on the Google Alerts, and i get an alert this morning: http://killthekidsfirst.blogspot.com/2009/06/charetta-defying-inevitable-2009.html it looks like someone took our album, ripped it, and post it on a blog with a link to download the album! :mad: at least we got 3 out of 4 stars under the review section -PJ ARe you really worried about this? Is it going to cut into your profits? Are you even profitable? My first inclination would be flattery. That's free PR, right there. And cheers on 3 out of 4. Ain't bad!!!
Members bostonwal Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 ARe you really worried about this? Is it going to cut into your profits? Are you even profitable? My first inclination would be flattery. That's free PR, right there. And cheers on 3 out of 4. Ain't bad!!! this is pretty much how I feel. As much as there is a debate around promotional giveaways versus only having people pay, I think that's a little bit more relevant if you're an established band where you can afford to piss off a blogger and fire some lawyers at a site like this. Clearly this is opening a can of worms, but has anyone thought of illegal downloads of unsigned or small bands as a replacement for radio promo? Major labels spend up to a million bucks or more in radio promo for a release with the goal of getting people to hear a song FOR FREE on the radio with the hopes that the free listening will lead to sales of music and tickets. Considering unsigned or small bands are cut out of the major radio market, I think these bands should view illegal or free downloads as their radio - getting people to hear the music in the hopes that some will buy the music (or at least tell someone about the music who subsequently buys it) or buys tickets or merch or something. (As for buying music - word of mouth has to spread to the iTunes crowd - the non-geeks of the world who don't have time for illegal downloading and don't give a crap about spending $1 or $10.) Now, if you find you've given away (or had stolen) a million downloads, I'd say that's plenty of promo and you should stop your own promo and go after the bastards stealing it! (Although if your song was illegally downloaded a million times then you're probably quite popular and playing sold-out arenas.) And also, remember, anyone reading this guy's blog is going to download illegally anyway. I've talked to a lot of people in my MBA program (you know, mature graduate students who are capitalist pigs at heart) and none of them purchase music. Haven't met a single person in the program who does. Ever. Always illegally downloaded. They absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music. Myself, I do Rhapsody so I download as much as I want for $15/month.
Members pjrake Posted June 19, 2009 Author Members Posted June 19, 2009 this is pretty much how I feel. As much as there is a debate around promotional giveaways versus only having people pay, I think that's a little bit more relevant if you're an established band where you can afford to piss off a blogger and fire some lawyers at a site like this. Clearly this is opening a can of worms, but has anyone thought of illegal downloads of unsigned or small bands as a replacement for radio promo? Major labels spend up to a million bucks or more in radio promo for a release with the goal of getting people to hear a song FOR FREE on the radio with the hopes that the free listening will lead to sales of music and tickets. Considering unsigned or small bands are cut out of the major radio market, I think these bands should view illegal or free downloads as their radio - getting people to hear the music in the hopes that some will buy the music (or at least tell someone about the music who subsequently buys it) or buys tickets or merch or something. (As for buying music - word of mouth has to spread to the iTunes crowd - the non-geeks of the world who don't have time for illegal downloading and don't give a crap about spending $1 or $10.)Now, if you find you've given away (or had stolen) a million downloads, I'd say that's plenty of promo and you should stop your own promo and go after the bastards stealing it! (Although if your song was illegally downloaded a million times then you're probably quite popular and playing sold-out arenas.)And also, remember, anyone reading this guy's blog is going to download illegally anyway. I've talked to a lot of people in my MBA program (you know, mature graduate students who are capitalist pigs at heart) and none of them purchase music. Haven't met a single person in the program who does. Ever. Always illegally downloaded. They absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music. Myself, I do Rhapsody so I download as much as I want for $15/month. i don't want to start yet another debate on illegal downloads, but there's something you said that, as a musician, really bothers me: "they absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music." we worked very hard, and spent alot of money putting this album out, making it as competitive product-wise as anything you can find in a retail store, and then to have someone put it up online... and for free?! now i know how metallica felt, not that we have the finances or fame that they have, but now seeing the other side of things, i can empathize with them. i hear you regarding the radio promo angle, but i think the difference is that with radio, you don't own it.. if you like the music eventually you have to buy it. with music blogs, a listener downloads it and that's it. if this guy would have had our music streaming, with a link to let's say iTunes or CDBaby, or even our Online Store site, then that would be more like radio promo, and i would totally be cool with that. i know as an unsigned, nobody band, it can be viewed as a good promotional thing, but couldn't we get the same promo if they would just stream our music instead? -PJ
Members Nijyo Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 i don't want to start yet another debate on illegal downloads, but there's something you said that, as a musician, really bothers me: "they absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music." we worked very hard, and spent alot of money putting this album out, making it as competitive product-wise as anything you can find in a retail store, and then to have someone put it up online... and for free?! now i know how metallica felt, not that we have the finances or fame that they have, but now seeing the other side of things, i can empathize with them.i hear you regarding the radio promo angle, but i think the difference is that with radio, you don't own it.. if you like the music eventually you have to buy it. with music blogs, a listener downloads it and that's it. if this guy would have had our music streaming, with a link to let's say iTunes or CDBaby, or even our Online Store site, then that would be more like radio promo, and i would totally be cool with that.i know as an unsigned, nobody band, it can be viewed as a good promotional thing, but couldn't we get the same promo if they would just stream our music instead?-PJ For me the situation is the difference between the band itself giving something away, and someone else giving it away. I can choose to give away my work to anyone I damn well please, other people don't have that permission unless I grant it to them. Why a site would review an album and then say "here, don't pay for it, download the rip we did" is... kinda bizarre. How many stars do they need to assign before they recommend that people buy it?
Members MaxKincaide Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 i don't want to start yet another debate on illegal downloads, but there's something you said that, as a musician, really bothers me: "they absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music." we worked very hard, and spent alot of money putting this album out, making it as competitive product-wise as anything you can find in a retail store, and then to have someone put it up online... and for free?! now i know how metallica felt, not that we have the finances or fame that they have, but now seeing the other side of things, i can empathize with them.i hear you regarding the radio promo angle, but i think the difference is that with radio, you don't own it.. if you like the music eventually you have to buy it. with music blogs, a listener downloads it and that's it. if this guy would have had our music streaming, with a link to let's say iTunes or CDBaby, or even our Online Store site, then that would be more like radio promo, and i would totally be cool with that.i know as an unsigned, nobody band, it can be viewed as a good promotional thing, but couldn't we get the same promo if they would just stream our music instead?-PJ The biggest difference is that this is regarding the entire album of work, not just one or two songs that are being pirated here. I would definitely follow through and get some kind of resolve from the site if I were you. This is, unfortunately, a really prime example of what the downside of giving music away can be. Again, it's not just 1 or 2 songs, here, it's the whole album of work. Work that cost money. Money that you and your band earned. And now, instead of earning a return off of your investment in your recording, some turdface is spreading your hard work around for free. Flattery? Maybe so. But I would still be pissed.
Moderators daddymack Posted June 19, 2009 Moderators Posted June 19, 2009 I've talked to a lot of people in my MBA program (you know, mature graduate students who are capitalist pigs at heart) and none of them purchase music. Haven't met a single person in the program who does. Ever. Always illegally downloaded. They absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music. . MBA pogram=School for White Collar Criminals...
Members vanlatte Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 I see a double edged sword here... On the one hand I can see how you are upset that somebody did this. On the other hand, as was already mentioned, you got some "exposure" (can't believe I actually used that word in a positive light How established are you guys? If you are not even a blip on the radar yet, taking some sort of "cease and desist" action could possibly leave a black mark on your reputation. I would be very careful and not let egos run away here. Just my $.02
Members Matximus Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 i don't want to start yet another debate on illegal downloads, but there's something you said that, as a musician, really bothers me: "they absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music." we worked very hard, and spent alot of money putting this album out, making it as competitive product-wise as anything you can find in a retail store, and then to have someone put it up online... and for free?! now i know how metallica felt, not that we have the finances or fame that they have, but now seeing the other side of things, i can empathize with them.i hear you regarding the radio promo angle, but i think the difference is that with radio, you don't own it.. if you like the music eventually you have to buy it. with music blogs, a listener downloads it and that's it. if this guy would have had our music streaming, with a link to let's say iTunes or CDBaby, or even our Online Store site, then that would be more like radio promo, and i would totally be cool with that.i know as an unsigned, nobody band, it can be viewed as a good promotional thing, but couldn't we get the same promo if they would just stream our music instead?-PJ My initial reaction was this is no big deal. But I'm not you. You obviously feel quite strongly about this. So yeah. you should take action to halt the free downloads. Also, when you get together with the band, you guys should brainstorm if there is any WAY to positively capitalize on this...
Members BlueStrat Posted June 19, 2009 Members Posted June 19, 2009 Originally Posted by bostonwal I've talked to a lot of people in my MBA program (you know, mature graduate students who are capitalist pigs at heart) and none of them purchase music. Haven't met a single person in the program who does. Ever. Always illegally downloaded. They absolutely laughed at the idea of actually going to iTunes to buy music. They'll make great investment bankers. .
Members stopthebus Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 You're really making a big deal out of nothing. This is how the online world works, good or bad, and you taking "action" against this is kind of ridiculous. Be glad people are listening. It's one thing to say "We won't give our album away for free ourselves, we're going to sell it for $10 since we spent a lot of time and effort on it", that's fine and the way it should be, this shouldn't be a debate about the "worth" of your music. Just don't waste time worrying about this and being proactive in going after a blogger, there's no way that would end well.
Members bostonwal Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 I was just thinking out loud. My main thought was my first one - ask the blogger to point to your myspace instead and then leave it at that. As for MBA stuff, i'm certainly one of those "capitalist pigs" in general (a Rhapsody-using capitalist pig). We're not all bad! (Of course if anyone would insist we're all bad, then I'd have to ask you to blow me.)
Members bostonwal Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 btw, the more popular you get the more this stuff happens.
Members BlueStrat Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 Just don't waste time worrying about this and being proactive in going after a blogger, there's no way that would end well. BS. I'd make an example out of that sumbitch if it cost me my house. No one has the right to give someone else's work away.
Members fumetti Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 Do what you think is best. But me... I'd put my own music on the torrent sites just to get people to give it a listen! But I'm not you.
Members stopthebus Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 BS. I'd make an example out of that sumbitch if it cost me my house. No one has the right to give someone else's work away. Who would you be giving the example to? There are thousands of bloggers that do this kind of thing every day, and just as many bands that go along with it because they'd rather be discovered by someone through that blog, than discovered as a band that 'attacks' bloggers. I don't understand what you would be trying to prove, or how it would help your image or promotion at all. This would be way more harmful than helpful.
Members theboywho Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 I'd be inclined to e-mail the host and get them to change the file so its something like 2 full tracks and a sampler.The good thing about music blogs like that is there are people that read them who will get the illigial download, then if they like it get the official version.
Members richardmac Posted June 20, 2009 Members Posted June 20, 2009 There's a certain Darwinism to this whole free music thing, if you think about it. Take a musician who writes and records fairly good music... people hear it and generally they like it. We'll call him Bill. Bill has two choices. He can either pursue his music by giving his music away from free, OR he can go the commercial route - treat it like a business. I'd strongly argue that in the long run, ie 10 to 20 year big picture, that those who do give away their music for free are NOT going to have the same level of success as those who sell their music. People act as though giving away music is this great 21st Century Marketing Strategy that will somehow lead to a large fan base. My observations is that it does not work that way! You end up with thousands of FAKE FANS. What's a fake fan? A fan who says they love your music but they're not willing to pay for it. The argument is that the free music will make people want to buy tickets to shows and t-shirts at shows. I don't get this. If you are a no-name band who gives away music for free, do you really honestly think you're going to be touring and people are going to pay to see you? And buy your t-shirts? Really? Might work for a small number of bands but for the majority it won't. Touring is a tricky business and it is difficult to make money touring. So my thought is that those who follow a business plan that actually makes sense on paper will outlive those who think they can give away music and make their money on touring and t-shirts. Selling CD's at gigs is one of the last ways that you actually CAN make money. Regarding this thread, people can say whatever they want, but the law is the law and the law does not care what people post in forums. The law says you can't do what's being done. I very much liked the suggestion to tell the blogger to please link to the artist's myspace page. Education is extremely important, especially to fans like this blogger.
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