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Does Van Halen classify as a shredder or not?


thrashmetl

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So if you keep track of my recent posts (which you probably don't) you might have noticed that I've become somewhat morbidly obsessed with the publics opinion of Eddie Van Halen. Some hate him, some love him, some just think he should give up.

 

In a recent post I called him a shredder and I had a few comments by random forumites who seemed somewhat appalled that I had called him a shredder. Is EVH a shredder or not? In my book he fits the profile.

 

Now I don't know if these particular people who commented just find the word shredder offensive and don't want someone they listen to called a shredder because they think it's a bad word or what, but I'd like to know what people think. Is EVH a shredder? Tell me why or why not?

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For his day yes, he innovated that, but now looking back, to me no. Eddie actually writes good songs and that's the last things most "shredders" think about. I don't think Eddie played the way he did to impress people or anything , that's just the way he played. He's not fast at all by most standards today either. Just my 2 cents...

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For his day yes, he innovated that, but now looking back, to me no. Eddie actually writes good songs and that's the last things most "shredders" think about. I don't think Eddie played the way he did to impress people or anything , that's just the way he played. He's not fast at all by most standards today either. Just my 2 cents...

Maybe that just makes him the best one ?

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I don't know what the 'according to Hoyle' definition of a shredder is, but I think of shredding as nearly endless wanking, playing nearly as fast as possible with very little feeling. I don't think of Eddie as a shredder and to be honest, I don't think of Yngwie's first album as a shred album. They are mostly real songs, that are hummable with fast playing on there as well. I don't think of Eric Johnson as a shredder, though he's obviously a fast, clean player that can throw a {censored}load of notes out if he wants to. Same thing with Allan Holdsworth, but I don't think of him when I think of shredders. I think 'he can shred', I don't think 'he's a shredder'.

 

Steve Vai and Joe Satriani both have done lyrical stuff, prog rock stuff and shred as well. Petrucci

 

Listen to the G3 DVDs with Petrucci, Vai and Satch. Most of that is shredding in my opinion. If I listen to VHII, Women and Children First or Fair Warning, I don't hear shredding. I hear classic rock transitioning into hard rock, with more guitar than average.

 

Keeping in mind, I'm the LAST person to knock shredding. I've seen Vai, Satch, Malmsteen, MacAlpine, David Chastain, Cacophony and I'm sure a couple others.

 

I rarely listen to it anymore, but I've always thought that the categorization of a player because of the ability to play fast was silly. To knock a player because he has the ability to play fast makes about as much sense as disliking a blues player because he plays with too much emotion or knocking a jazz player because he knows too many chords. Speed is just an ability... when it becomes non-stop is when it loses it's effect.

 

Malmsteen is the icon, I suppose and he is a good example. He started off in lyric-based hard rock/heavy metal, then did his first solo album which I think is pretty much outstanding. Then over the next 3 or 4 years, did some good stuff, kinda went back to the lyric-driven stuff, then went back to the non-stop arpeggios and harmonic minor stuff for every song. I've often said he's become a caricature of himself.

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So it would seem that the only reason most people don't want to call him a shredder is because there is a negative stigmatism connected to the term. Personally I don't look at the term in a negative way, I just think anyone who plays solos at a million miles an hour is a shredder, and I don't take into account the rest of the song. I kind of thought of Van Halen as the the father of shred, or at least one of them.

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I don't think Eddie is a shredder in terms of what a shredder is thought of now, but you would be hard pressed to find a shredder that didn't spend time studying Eddie's style or list him as an influence. For that reason, I would say that Eddie is a shredder in the classic sense, much the same way that Jimi Hendrix was a shredder for his time (IMHO).

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I have never considered him a shredder, and I don't really think of shred as a derogotory term.

 

When I think of shredders, I think of extreme technical ability. You know, the guys who can sweep pick 64th notes at 280 bpm and never miss a beat. The guys who play unusual scale patterns, the guys that seem to write songs to highlight their technique and finesse.

 

Ed never did any sweep picking. He was fast, but not mind blowingly fast. He had plenty of technical ability, but he always played right on the edge of his ability...almost like at any moment you'd expect him to just have a trainwreck within the song. He also seemed to write more pop songs and just incorporated his technical abilities into those songs. His biggest strengths for me were his songwriting, his phrasing, and the weird ass noises he was able to coax out of his guitar and amp.

 

As far as his lead playing, listen back to the classic VH albums. Most of his lead breaks are very short. He did a bunch of stuff in his rhythm work that is easily as impressive, or more impressive than his lead work, yet a lot of people tend to see him as a lead wanker.

 

That's just me. I don't really see the harm in somebody considering him a shredder, but to me, he doesn't really fit the mold that I think most shredders are cut from.

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I always think Eddie inspired and invented shredding, but at the same time was not a shredder. No shredder out there has the style, tone, and feel that Eddie has. Most modern shredders have no style, what-so-ever, and none of them have their own tone, just dropped mids and high gain. Eddie is the creator of something he's really not a part of, if you know what I mean.

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I have never considered him a shredder, and I don't really think of shred as a derogotory term.


When I think of shredders, I think of extreme technical ability. You know, the guys who can sweep pick 64th notes at 280 bpm and never miss a beat. The guys who play unusual scale patterns, the guys that seem to write songs to highlight their technique and finesse.


Ed never did any sweep picking. He was fast, but not mind blowingly fast. He had plenty of technical ability, but he always played right on the edge of his ability...almost like at any moment you'd expect him to just have a trainwreck within the song. He also seemed to write more pop songs and just incorporated his technical abilities into those songs. His biggest strengths for me were his songwriting, his phrasing, and the weird ass noises he was able to coax out of his guitar and amp.


As far as his lead playing, listen back to the classic VH albums. Most of his lead breaks are very short. He did a bunch of stuff in his rhythm work that is easily as impressive, or more impressive than his lead work, yet a lot of people tend to see him as a lead wanker.


That's just me. I don't really see the harm in somebody considering him a shredder, but to me, he doesn't really fit the mold that I think most shredders are cut from.

 

 

Excellent points.

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And I don't mean this as a slight against either of them, but just to throw out there, I've seen Van Halen and Malmsteen multiple times. Eddie, though obviously an outstanding player, never seems to quite nail the stuff live. I know he's more of a Jeff Beck (just go for it!) kinda guy, but he couldn't stand up there and play Eruption 100% like the original recording.

 

Malmsteen can. Other than his low E string going flat, he can stand up there and play his stuff 100%. The original recordings are not accidents.

 

I respect the hell out of of both of them, and I certainly listen to the VH1 - OU812 stuff, along with Malmsteen's first album more than his more shreddy stuff, but folks that knock Malmsteen because he can play fast... well, that's just silly.

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Not a shredder. An inspiration to many of the 80s shredders no doubt, but not a shredder. When he was one of the fastest guys in town in 1978, maybe he could be considered a shredder but his music isn't shred, which wasn't around at the time.

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EVH is way more than a shredder. Yes he can shred too a degre but I hear more going on than say Yngwie or Satch whom are dedicated shredders.

His rhythms are as essential as his leads which isnt true for some other dedicated shredders.

Something too think about.

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I just hate the word shredder and no guitarist that I enjoy accurately fits that category.

 

IMO, shredding is a trick with little musical value.

 

Very young Shawn Lane was a shredder, but he matured a lot by the time he was 18. He didn't lose his superhuman speed, but every song was not a vehicle for billion note solos anymore.

 

I don't consider Paul Gilbert a shredder, even though he can casually outshred just about anyone on the planet.

 

Come to think of it, shredding is a phase that good musicians can grow beyond. It's great if someone wants to develop extreme speed and it can be a handy and effective tool. It just gets tiresome for every solo to be acrobatics and tricks.

 

Everything in moderation.

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Not a shredder. An inspiration to many of the 80s shredders no doubt, but not a shredder. When he was one of the fastest guys in town in 1978, maybe he could be considered a shredder but his music isn't shred, which wasn't around at the time.

 

 

+1

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