Members lt.Wulffwood Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 Hey guys, my band and I are in the market to buy a used 15 passenger van to tour in, and around the long island area there are a LOT of options. I was just wondering if theres any tips I should know about before buying one (whats a good mileage, price, ect.)
Moderators daddymack Posted January 22, 2009 Moderators Posted January 22, 2009 good luck...buy used, get a warranty, and do not get the smallest engine to save fuel...
Members Dew Knot Hump Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 Hey guys, my band and I are in the market to buy a used 15 passenger van to tour in, and around the long island area there are a LOT of options. I was just wondering if theres any tips I should know about before buying one (whats a good mileage, price, ect.) No Comment.
Members herbie d Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 I do better on my taxes leasing one. You might try looking at it that way before you buy.
Moderators daddymack Posted January 23, 2009 Moderators Posted January 23, 2009 I do better on my taxes leasing one. You might try looking at it that way before you buy. THey would need to be in a LLC or other legal entity in order to get away with that. Vans can also be rented, and if you are a legal entity, it is a legitimate business expense as well.
Members Crazy88Fingers Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 It's just like buying any other used car. You'll have to shop around in your area to determine the fair market value of the vans you're looking at. Just make sure it runs, has decent miles, no leaks, etc. Avoid anything with a trailer hitch if you can, as that means it was probably used to tow something. And that can do hell to a transmission. And if you plan on towing a trailer of equipment, make sure you get a transmission cooler installed. Also, don't go for the smallest engine you can find, as mentioned before. A healthy V8 will get worse gas mileage, but it doesn't have to work as hard as a V6 to haul stuff around and will probably last longer because of that (it'll also get you to the gig on time). And, if you or any of your band mates are mechanically inclined, try to find something you can work on yourself. I was looking for an older Chevy van for this reason when my band was planning a tour. It can save you a lot of time and money in a worst case scenario.
Members herbie d Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 THey would need to be in a LLC or other legal entity in order to get away with that. Vans can also be rented, and if you are a legal entity, it is a legitimate business expense as well. I'm not a tax expert, but I usually do my own. I have a tax ID number with the IRS. Some of the towns I play in I've had to have a business licence. I list my name as I use it playing music, (slight variation of my real name, easier to spell) On my tax ID, business licences, and business checking, it says my name... "doing business as..." Most list my business as,"musician". I usually take my lease strait off, (ya know.. it could be a %. I guess I'll remember in a few weeks) as well as the storage bld I use.(store extra sound equipment, old amps and such) and a home office. At one point I traveled with this band, and the owner/singer claimed the Blue Bird Bus we traveled in as a second residence. Bwah,ha. I couldn't believe it. So.. What is, "a LLC or other legal entity?" Like I've done or something else?
Members lt.Wulffwood Posted January 23, 2009 Author Members Posted January 23, 2009 It's just like buying any other used car. You'll have to shop around in your area to determine the fair market value of the vans you're looking at. Just make sure it runs, has decent miles, no leaks, etc. Avoid anything with a trailer hitch if you can, as that means it was probably used to tow something. And that can do hell to a transmission. And if you plan on towing a trailer of equipment, make sure you get a transmission cooler installed. Also, don't go for the smallest engine you can find, as mentioned before. A healthy V8 will get worse gas mileage, but it doesn't have to work as hard as a V6 to haul stuff around and will probably last longer because of that (it'll also get you to the gig on time). And, if you or any of your band mates are mechanically inclined, try to find something you can work on yourself. I was looking for an older Chevy van for this reason when my band was planning a tour. It can save you a lot of time and money in a worst case scenario. Well we do have a 5x8 trailer we would tow packed out with equipment, but I see your point about not getting something with a trailer hitch. Thank you What about mileage? I heard chevy and ford 15 passenger vans could go up to 300,000 miles before chugging to a slow death, but that seems a little unrealistically high to me.
Members jerrye Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 One Gulf Coast regional band bought an airport shuttle bus for cheap. They built bunks in it. I hope to see it tomorrow, but I hear it's very efficient on seating space and separate sleep space. I bet it smells like a locker room though.
Members TRevMFB Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 also when buying a van, be sure to put brand new truck tires designed for towing heavy loads. yes they are expensive about $1300 for a full set. but in the end your gas mileage to be slightly better and your ride will be more strudy plus the tire life will be longer. commercial tires can have a tendency to blow out due to excessive towing weight. when looking into a ford, get one with the largest v8 possible. (depending on the year model there are about 4 different types to choose from) don't go e150 that's the smallest motor. my band tows a 6x12 trailer fully loaded to the max with a 94 e250 pushing 200k miles, and honestly the motor's still strong as hell. it's just other issues with the van that is leaning us to selling it.
Members Jesse G Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 You'll regret it no matter what.
Members lonotes Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 Ryder sells off their vehicles when they reach a certain age or mileage. Note that there is a difference between rental trucks and lease trucks. Generally the lease trucks are in better physical condition, as they have been driven by far fewer people. Usually they have been issued to only one department or even one person for the entire life of the vehicle. Whereas the rental trucks are like the village bicycle, everybody has had a turn. But regardless of lease or rental, both have been maintained by Ryder's own service department. This means regular servicing (oil changes, repairs, etc) to prevent downtime and it's subsequent lack of revenue produced by an individual vehicle. In my industry (carnivals) Ryder trucks are quite popular owing to their value and dependability. Usually they are sold when their value is right around the $10,000 mark. U-Haul is a little less stringent on the maintenance, and don't have a lease inventory, but their vehicles sell a little bit cheaper. I also see a lot of former Hertz/Penske trucks but I don't know a lot about them.
Members Poker99 Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 You'll regret it no matter what. lol why are you saying that?
Members lt.Wulffwood Posted January 23, 2009 Author Members Posted January 23, 2009 You'll regret it no matter what. Someone must of had a bad experience
Members Filthy Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 I'm a paranoid safety nerd: please do something to secure gear inside the van and keep it separate from the passengers. I've seen horrendous band vans where it is quite likely to be killed by a flying amp head in an accident that would otherwise not be a big deal. Used cargo vans are common to have guys bunked out amongst thousands of pounds of gear. I know safety isn't very rock and roll.... Is there any chance of buying it and renting it out to other bands in your town to recover some costs? There is a guy in my city that does this; how successful/cost effective it is I don't know.
Members Iamtheblues Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 Plan ahead for what happens to it when the band breaks up.
Members Norton666 Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 You'll regret it no matter what. +1000000000
Members Poker99 Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 +1000000000 WTF with all the regret responses? Tell your stories or STFU
Moderators daddymack Posted January 23, 2009 Moderators Posted January 23, 2009 What is, "a LLC or other legal entity?" Like I've done or something else? Limited Liability Corporation, or form a partnership, but by all means, if you have more that 15k invested, you should incorporate. This protects your personal property if you get sued, etc., and creates a separate 'individual' for tax purposes. There are some PITAs associated with doing this, but there are definite advantages as well.
Members primeelite Posted January 23, 2009 Members Posted January 23, 2009 I have advised many bands and been a consultant for a few companies who help plan tours. For smaller groups sometimes you can be better off with two cars/suv's than having an 18 passenger van. If you are making money while touring then you can get a small touring type of van and if I were you I would just lease during the time of the tour so you can completely write it off as well as the extra money you will have to pay for extended mileage. If you buy an 18 passenger van that is reliable it can cost a pretty good amount of money for a regular just trying to make it band. You might want to check out many options such as an SUV and have a way to pull a small luggage type trailer behind it to carry all of your equipment.
Members Crazy88Fingers Posted January 24, 2009 Members Posted January 24, 2009 Well we do have a 5x8 trailer we would tow packed out with equipment, but I see your point about not getting something with a trailer hitch. Thank you What about mileage? I heard chevy and ford 15 passenger vans could go up to 300,000 miles before chugging to a slow death, but that seems a little unrealistically high to me. It happens. But it all depends on how they're maintained throughout their lifetime. Most of them seem to hold up pretty well though.
Members FlyingBloodyFrogBiscuit Posted January 24, 2009 Members Posted January 24, 2009 One word. Diesel.
Members herbie d Posted January 24, 2009 Members Posted January 24, 2009 Limited Liability Corporation, or form a partnership, but by all means, if you have more that 15k invested, you should incorporate. This protects your personal property if you get sued, etc., and creates a separate 'individual' for tax purposes. There are some PITAs associated with doing this, but there are definite advantages as well. I'm listed as a "Soul Proprietor". Most guys I have ever played with Scoff at taxes. A lawyer Buddy of mine tells me,"any Lawyer worth his salt can get around a Corporation, forget it" So I did. Talking Taxes with musicians is touchy to say the least. Talking Liability Ins, and workers comp is the worst.
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