Members MusicGuy101 Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 I ran across this article and found it pretty interesting: 95% of Music Downloads are Illegal:IFPI In brief, a report was put together by the IFPI stating that 95% of music downloads are illegal and something like 40 billion songs were downloaded through P2P means. One of the polls conducted to see what would change people around was asking if people would stop downloading if their internet connection would be disconnected when caught, of after 3 strikes for example. Another interesting point was that maybe if companies would remove DRM (digital rights managed - song download with limitations as to how many copies could be burned, or how many computers the file can be on, ...) and lower prices, there would be less piracy. Not too sure it would be the case. I don't agree with it, but I think way too many people are used to getting everything for free and not getting caught or getting into any trouble so why even spend $2 for an album you can get for free? I guess morals haven't kicked in hard enough in music downloads yet to grasp that it is stealing any way you look at it.
Members Will Chen Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 Thanks for the article. Interesting read. I find the thought humorous that people will stop illegally downloading if DRM is lifted. Anyone who claims that is the reason they illegally download is simply looking for a justification to there illegal activity.
Members Kramerguy Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 Thanks for the article. Interesting read. I find the thought humorous that people will stop illegally downloading if DRM is lifted. Anyone who claims that is the reason they illegally download is simply looking for a justification to there illegal activity. I agree. A friend of mine asked me to work on his PC (paid job), and asked me about downloading music for his Zune. I told him the various options, like buying a membership based service such as napster, or just buying singles from amazon or walmart. He then asked me about limewire I made my feelings clear and explained how it's not just groups like metallica, but every local and regional musician out there selling music gets screwed out of money by it. I also made the point about risk vs. reward.. It's just not worth the per-song fine if you actually did get caught in a dragnet. So I worked on his machine the following week, and what's right there on the desktop? A limewire shortcut. I wouldn't think of turning him in, but now I'm curious if any of you guys would in that kind of scenario?
Members JTEES4 Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 I honestly don't mean this as a flame...I don't get why you would even THINK of turning him in for that? If someone is speeding on the highway (I bet you have as well as all of us)...do you turn them all in? You're not a cop. Child porn.....Different story....children are innocent. The music industry can and will take care of itself. I agree. A friend of mine asked me to work on his PC (paid job), and asked me about downloading music for his Zune. I told him the various options, like buying a membership based service such as napster, or just buying singles from amazon or walmart. He then asked me about limewire I made my feelings clear and explained how it's not just groups like metallica, but every local and regional musician out there selling music gets screwed out of money by it. I also made the point about risk vs. reward.. It's just not worth the per-song fine if you actually did get caught in a dragnet. So I worked on his machine the following week, and what's right there on the desktop? A limewire shortcut. I wouldn't think of turning him in, but now I'm curious if any of you guys would in that kind of scenario?
Members nwtsnma Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 I honestly don't mean this as a flame...I don't get why you would even THINK of turning him in for that? If someone is speeding on the highway (I bet you have as well as all of us)...do you turn them all in? You're not a cop. Child porn.....Different story....children are innocent. The music industry can and will take care of itself. the music industry will die. nothing can stop that now.
Members Kramerguy Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 ...I don't get why you would even THINK of turning him in for that? what gave you that idea?
Members nwtsnma Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 what gave you that idea? you said you wouldn't think of turning him in, which means you thought about it
Members Kramerguy Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 you said you wouldn't think of turning him in, which means you thought about it I thought about other musicians who are so against it that they probably would (or might?). I remember a very heated debate about it on a forum somewhere a few years ago and was just curious to hear points of view in today's market. It's an interesting topic that I've not really discussed with other musicians, although I imagine it's been discussed to death here. Just curious really.
Members slight-return Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 t. So I worked on his machine the following week, and what's right there on the desktop? A limewire shortcut. P2P itself is just a distribution technology (portions of the Linux community, for instance uses it quite a bit). I've had people give me the "naughty naughty" when seeing a mu-torrent up...until they look at the file list In some ways, I think that (even socially) associating certain data xfer technologies with piracy could be a dangerous thing (remember the "Usher" debacle from a few years back), could retard certain technologies, be misused as an investigative lever, etc
Members Crazy88Fingers Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 Honestly, if my ISP turned off my internet connection (for whatever reason) I would just switch providers. I don't know what they're hoping to accomplish with that tactic.
Members bostonwal Posted January 21, 2009 Members Posted January 21, 2009 Honestly, if my ISP turned off my internet connection (for whatever reason) I would just switch providers. I don't know what they're hoping to accomplish with that tactic. ISPs have huge teeth in this. The current suggestions for how they will proceed show a great deal of restraint. They could easily keep you off of every ISP out there. Easily. They could also stop all transfer of any file they want - i.e. not let a single mp3 file through their pipes. An easy flick of the switch for all practical purposes. So, somewhere between doing nothing and those two draconian measures I'm sure some process will evolve that will deter a big chunk of illegal downloading in the next five years.
Members HKSblade1 Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 Guy asked me why bands like Fleetwood Mac are getting arena touring deals again and other bands even on radio you seldom see getting those shows? I asked him to look at his nearly maxed out IPOD. Reminding him of our dead horse argument. Music must have value in the market or you will never see the national spotlight since it cannot be paid for/recovered in music media sales. Media sales drive the tours as the biggest promotional vehicle asset. Fleetwood Mac, Eagles and recurring label branded bands can tour often as they want as long as that ole paying audience will be in attendance. Second reason is it again promotes classic artist cd/medium sales by larger margins. Freebie or pirate generations will suffer a long time before they ever see the national stage. The audiences are not supporting the new or favorite artists and hurt them in the long run. No sales devalues the groups. ISP's could black list subscribers if the piracy laws are broken. It's not going to really matter. All musicians will have are myspace and a few other e methods of downloading. Go try out for American Idol, your chances are even better! Piracy is huge losses all across the board. Take most kids Ipods or Zunes and add up the artist medium and multiply by 99 cent rates or whatever it is. The number will blow your mind. Those losses cost the artist, the industry, the packagers, the retailers, their employees. That's a lot of jobs! Next time you see someone at the unemployment line, he/she may be there as a result of piracy.
Members nwtsnma Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 ISPs have huge teeth in this. The current suggestions for how they will proceed show a great deal of restraint. They could easily keep you off of every ISP out there. Easily. They could also stop all transfer of any file they want - i.e. not let a single mp3 file through their pipes. An easy flick of the switch for all practical purposes. So, somewhere between doing nothing and those two draconian measures I'm sure some process will evolve that will deter a big chunk of illegal downloading in the next five years. then they'd have no customers. you think isps want to have no customers?
Members Poker99 Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 the music industry will die. nothing can stop that now.
Members JTEES4 Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 I re-read your post....my mistake! Sorry. what gave you that idea?
Members BlueStrat Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 then they'd have no customers. you think isps want to have no customers? Yes, because we all know illegal downloading is the only reason ISPs exist.
Members pjrake Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 then they'd have no customers. you think isps want to have no customers? not all internet users are downloading illegally. this is a serious issue with no foreseeable solution. -PJ
Members bostonwal Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 then they'd have no customers. you think isps want to have no customers? This will come about through government regulation which is already happening in some countries. ISPs are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts - it's the copyright law that is being enforced. So, when it's universally regulated, that includes all ISPs in a given country, so it won't be a question of competition between them. It will just be a new context for all ISP customers to operate in. So, you would have to move to a country that did not regulate this if you wanted to pursue illegal downloading (theoretically of course). Illegal downloads only happen because of its convenience. You make it inconvenient enough and it will drop like a rock.
Members Poker99 Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 This will come about through government regulation which is already happening in some countries. ISPs are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts - it's the copyright law that is being enforced. So, when it's universally regulated, that includes all ISPs in a given country, so it won't be a question of competition between them. It will just be a new context for all ISP customers to operate in. So, you would have to move to a country that did not regulate this if you wanted to pursue illegal downloading (theoretically of course). Illegal downloads only happen because of its convenience. You make it inconvenient enough and it will drop like a rock. I agree. Some will always find way to download illegally but if its hard enough, most won't. But I'm not too excited by these measures. They want to block mp3s at the ISPs ok fine... But remember : They will ask you to pay a fee for unlimited download, and then the labels will redistribute that money to artists. I'm sure most artists will get screwed in that new system. First, I don't like labels being in control of that money. Secondly, how will they be able to redistribute the money and follow downloads? Its impossible. They can't even do it for radio...
Members FireWithin Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 I'm sure this will make you guys nuts but here goes... major labels need to die! downloading is helping this happen. Everything in the music world is super rich or very poor. We need a middle class in the music world...a level playing field. I can record myself now and release music as never before. If left to the major labels, my music would never see the light of day. But, as it is now, I've been on a local station a few times. It comes down to how good your music is and how business smart you are. downloading is killing off the top level players and major labels. They are the old model, make room for the new! Music is not going away. Some how, some way people will find a way. Artist have been screwed long enough and I love seeing the labels finally gets whats coming. Do you really think when they collect and claim to redistribute the wealth that they will? So you think artist see the money the RIAA is getting from sueing mothers of 3?
Members Kramerguy Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 I'm sure this will make you guys nuts but here goes...major labels need to die! downloading is helping this happen. Everything in the music world is super rich or very poor. We need a middle class in the music world...a level playing field. I can record myself now and release music as never before. If left to the major labels, my music would never see the light of day. But, as it is now, I've been on a local station a few times. It comes down to how good your music is and how business smart you are.downloading is killing off the top level players and major labels. They are the old model, make room for the new! Music is not going away. Some how, some way people will find a way. Artist have been screwed long enough and I love seeing the labels finally gets whats coming.Do you really think when they collect and claim to redistribute the wealth that they will? So you think artist see the money the RIAA is getting from sueing mothers of 3? My only contentions to the argument are that the illegal downloaders are screwing the artist as well as the industry ever could, and the radio stations used to be the ones (DJ's) who selected what was good and also played what the listeners wanted to hear. Nowadays, radio is just SSDD vomit and the DJ died 2 decades ago. The VJ died shortly after birth, call it crib death. So what if the major labels die? Indie labels will become major, thus replacing them with the same old same old, the listeners will continue to not pay for it, and american idol will continue to tell us that the carbon copy tits & ass are the new big thing.
Members bostonwal Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 I'm sure this will make you guys nuts but here goes...major labels need to die! downloading is helping this happen. Everything in the music world is super rich or very poor. I don't think majors need to die. I think what needed to happen was for the artist to gain more leverage and options which allow them to say no to the major. Or at least give them a good chance of buidling their own thing before going into business with a major. I think as long as there are major bands/performers that sell out major arenas, there will be major labels. I'm not sure how much of a middle class there ever will be. Either your stuff is fantastic and people will open their wallets or it isn't and only friends, family and local fans that go to your shows pull out their wallets. But I think there is a middle class in music, but maybe not so much in people making original music. The middle class exists in studio musicians, teaching, jingle writing, big time cover bands, or a combination of all of these. Solely original music - a very small percentage of the middle class I imagine.
Members bostonwal Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 I agree. Some will always find way to download illegally but if its hard enough, most won't.But I'm not too excited by these measures. They want to block mp3s at the ISPs ok fine... But remember : They will ask you to pay a fee for unlimited download, and then the labels will redistribute that money to artists. Blocking mp3s would never happen, but turning Limewire around and using it as a means to find illegal downloads and then having the ISP shut down those folks that you find with Limewire will happen. Collecting fines is not that important in this scenario. But anyway, the issue is the convenience. It's so easy that people who can barely use a computer download illegally and probably dont even know it. If you took that ability away from them, they won't turn into power users just for the downloads,they'll just go to iTunes.
Members Poker99 Posted January 22, 2009 Members Posted January 22, 2009 I'm not sure how much of a middle class there ever will be. Either your stuff is fantastic and people will open their wallets or it isn't and only friends, family and local fans that go to your shows pull out their wallets. Your stuff doesn't need to be fantastic. Look at the Jonas Brothers. That's why I think major labels will always exist. With their marketing power they can sell pop {censored} to teenagers, and always will.
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