I HATE my Kahler. HELP!!!

[Songman68]

I have gotten to the point in my life and my guitar playing that I absolutely despise all floating bridges. It is so much easier to tune and take care of a fixed tail bridge guitar without a locking nut.

[bikerdude]

 

Originally posted by LoboR1 Really??? Holy {censored} dude!! I had a guitar back in the late 80's that had a Kahler Pro on it....that trem was the best i have ever played!!!!!!.. No issues with string changes, stayed in tune like no other, and just rocked! it was as hassle free as a fixed bridge on Gibson..actually more hassle free...it didnt fall out if the strings were off. Kahler must have really fkked up the desing of their newer trems if you are having problems.. Sad to hear!

 

 

I agree, The kahler is under-rated. The fact is, it requires the least amount of material removal to install thereby allowing more resonance.

I de-kahlered my mid 80's Invader and put in an ASAT bridge, fits perfectly. I filled the rout with a matching piece of alder. Finish rematching is tough.

When I get the time I will re-install the kahler because I miss the "shimmer" it gives. I really don't incorporate divebombing in my playing, usually only when wanking.

My invader is one of the finest sounding/playing guitars I have ever owned. The combo of the MFDs with that old Schaller HB is shaa-weet- at least to my ears and other people comment also. I swapped out the Schaller w/ Duncans, DiMarzios, etc but always put it back in because it works best in combination w/ the MFDs.

[bikerdude]

Oh, I remember why I removed the Kahler- it wasn't because of the hassle. It was the floating aspect. If you do an extreme bend it will pull adjacent fretted notes out of tune.

The ASAT bridge actually makes my guitar sound better.

You should be able to get a black ASAT bridge from your local G&L dealer. I remember mine didn't cost all that much.

[Tone Eee]

ASAT bridge--exactly the info I was looking for!

G&L dealer--HAH!

I don't think there is one in Tucson, even with a metro pop of close to 1 million!

Maybe the G&L website has some dealer info, but I know the Guitarsbyleo site is pretty on it.

THANKS!

[bikerdude]

Try Encore Music in Albuquerque.

The cool thing is that the ASAT bridge has the G&L logo.

[xRiffxRaffx]

Ok so after reading what you guys have to say i am confused,

I am concidering buying a kk wartribe and they have a hybrid kahler on them. So i did some research as i have never used one. I got this thread from you guys and found this link on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K350onEl1o

Now after watching it i am truly thinking of staying with a floyd although i love the idea of the cam, you cant seem to bend the strings with out diving after that doest seem practical to me...please enlighten me guys.

thanks

[astr0z0mb1e2k7]

 

the tremolo action felt kind of light when compared to other tremolos I'd played.

 

 

Adjust the main spring tension and/or upgrade to the heavy springs that Kahler offer for those that wanted more of a "floyd" feel.

 

 

The Kahlers cam systems are SINGLE LOCKING. No locking the strings at the bridge, only at the nut. I haven't seen any other Kahler users mention this, so:

 

Taken from this website:

 

http://www.glowingtubes.com/p/Kahler_Instructions.htm

 

 

STRING CHANGING TIPS

 

The Kahler 2300 can be a very accurate vibrato bridge provided a few extra steps are taken during string changes. For accurate, dead-on pitch return I found that pre-bending and soldering the strings are a must.

 

The main friction point is the cam and you want the string to be pre-bent to match it's curvature. I bend each string over the end of my thumb to put a gentle curve at the windings. Bend the string so that the smooth side (with no obtrusions) will be towards the cam.

 

Notice how the bend is done with the flat sides of the ball toward the sides. (See the image at the above website)

 

 

 

It will help the stability of the tuning if you solder the windings on all six strings with electrical solder. This locks the winding and will prevent slippage. Only let the solder flow into the winding... don't let it creep where the string contacts the ball or upward past the winding.

 

It also doesn't hurt to sprinkle a little powdered graphite on the cam surface before installing the strings.

 

When placing the ball into the string block be sure that the "shoulder" on each side of the ball rests on it's respective side in the block. If the ball is cocked after the string has a little tension on it, push the bar down to release some of the tension and use a small hex key to manipulate the ball so that it sits evenly in the block.

 

 

Here is another site with great installation and setup and troubleshooting tips:

 

http://www.wammiworld.com/Installation.html

 

Kahler owners unite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smorgdonkey]

 

Nonetheless, Kahler has always made a great item, unfortunately, in the 80's EVH endorsed F.R., and the only Kahler endorsees I remember form that time was Mick Mars (not a particularly prolific guitarist), and Paul Gilbert (obviously a heck of a player but not nearly as well known by the thousands of guitarists who think Stairway To Heaven is still the coolest song to play at your local music store). This made everyone think that F.R. was better. This was in fact the opposite of the truth.

 

 

Actually...that's not what made people think that the Floyd Rose was better...the Floyd Rose IS actually better. Why is that some may wonder?

 

The reason that these two companies came up with their designs is tuning stability while using tremolos.

 

The Floyd Rose has the locking nut and the lock at the saddle. Thus when it is set up properly there are no places along the way to have the string interfered with.

 

The Kahler and particularly the ones from that era which is what your statement pertains to has:

-the locking nut BEHIND the nut. That is a major design flaw.

-the brass roller nut at the bridge.

-the ball end stays on the string and sits in a little 'pocket'.

 

So the reason why 'everyone thought the F.R. was better' was because it was better. The Kahlers had 3 different friction points which could cause major tuning instability. The F.R. had none.

 

Also people mentioning that the Kahler is easier to maintain...check the prices of Kahler parts vs. the prices of F.R. parts and think again.

[astr0z0mb1e2k7]

 

The Kahler and particularly the ones from that era which is what your statement pertains to has: -the locking nut BEHIND the nut. That is a major design flaw. -the brass roller nut at the bridge. -the ball end stays on the string and sits in a little 'pocket'.

 

 

While the stringlock behind the nut wasn't the best design, it works just fine granted your nut is properly cut and the stringlock is installed properly. The Kahler was designed around a Fender strat and to utilize the existing nut as a string guide.

 

The Kahler "Pro" had/has stainless steel roller. Brass rollers were on the 2230/2330/2320. The "Pro" model was only available as a custom order. The others were OEM for many different guitar companies.

 

The ball ends stays on and sits in a pocket on strat trems. What's the problem?

 

I can give flaws for a Floyd:

 

-too much wood needs to be routed for installation.

-not able to adjust individual string height.

-needs special tool to adjust intonation

 

What hurt Kahler:

 

all the inferior clones that were made without license. And he wasn't, for one reason or another, able to stop them from being made. It's take money to file lawsuits.

[jamdogg]

This is a great thread. I can see where everyone is coming from, lots of good responses.

 

I have a '85 LP with factory Kahler, my first Kahler. The guy who had it before me blocked it with a small piece of wood glued in the trem route. He also scrapped the fine tuning screws . I carefully removed the block and restrung it. Completely changed the tone of the guitar. I bought a used TP-6 for cheap and am using fine tuning screws from it on the Kahler. Now we're talkin'. Those thumb screws are like $7 each from Kahlerparts. Plus shipping.

 

I can't remember the string gauge I replaced, but I put .10's on it and have been tweaking it ever since (using those links someone posted). It's taken some time but I almost have it setup where I want it. I'm feeling out how much string bending I can do without going out of tune. Its got a great feel to it.

 

So I would suggest you hang in there (with some beer) and patiently tweek it out, and/or dumping it on ebay to get something else, or blocking it. My LP sounded great blocked and unblocked. It does have awesome pups though.

 

FYI, I recently saw Phil Collen furiously walking one of his guitars like a dog - by the whammy bar on his Kahler. And yeah, it stayed in tune the rest of the song. Amazing.

[guitarchaz]

I made the mistake of retrofitting a strat with a Kahler once. Killed my sustain. That being said, at the time, you could buy (and I did) heavier cam springs to make the action stiffer and minimize the sag when bending. You might check into that. Seems like it was a kit that actually came with a stiffer bar too. I'd offer it to you, but I sold it with the bridge many moons ago. Googdluck!!!

[q-4000]

you know you can lock a kahler down? there is a screw on the top that adjusts the tenetion you can crank it down so it dosnt move at all

[jamdogg]

When I got mine, the top screw was maxed and it was blocked. I removed the block (and the tension springs at one point) and adjusted the top screw to taste. I haven't tried to lock it with the screw, but when I removed the wood block it had indentations on it where the unit was bottoming out - even with the screw locked down as much as possible.

[smorgdonkey]

 

What hurt Kahler: all the inferior clones that were made without license. And he wasn't, for one reason or another, able to stop them from being made. It's take money to file lawsuits.

 

First of all...I NEVER saw a Kahler clone. NEVER. I am not saying that they did not exist but I never saw one.

 

Here's a significant point: If Kahler's design was better or even equal to the F.R. design, why did Kahler release a licensed F.R. and multiple designs based on the F.R. but F.R. NEVER release a licensed version of the Kahler?

 

I submit that there are people who like the Kahler design better and essentially it is just taste but if you get into breaking it all down there is no way that Kahler can be said to be a better design than the F.R.

[elvisart]

 

Thanks for the replies! Hey, the issue I have with the trem is where the adjustments are--right under the tautest part of the string when it is tuned up. When it is set up the thing is pretty great except for the floating aspect of it (which wang-bar enthusiasts would love, I'm sure). I just changed string gauges and I'm freaking out trying to intonate the sucker. I hate having someone else have to work on my guitars, but I may have to take it in if it pisses me off any more. I think I just need a beer.

 

I did a full setup on the one on my Explorer in about an hour, and that was being picky about spacing. I had to buy a new one, some former owner/a$$hole put a Washburn wonderbar on it. Much better now.

The new Kahlers (and some older ones) come with a lockout that locks the trem.

[astr0z0mb1e2k7]

 

I submit that there are people who like the Kahler design better and essentially it is just taste but if you get into breaking it all down there is no way that Kahler can be said to be a better design than the F.R.

 

 

 

The Floyd is a simpler design, not better. Anyway, comparing apples to oranges never works. One is fulcrum and other is cam operated.

 

Now, which is better, the Kahler fulcrum styles or the Floyd. Now that is comparing apples to apples. Those that have used the Steelers will say it beats the Floyd.