Members jopakra Posted January 10, 2009 Members Posted January 10, 2009 My group plays easy listening music at a local diner one day a week (3 hours) . We do not get paid, we just perform for the experience. The owner of the diner just received letters from SESAC and BMI demanding that she pay them hundreds of dollars for rights to play music. There has got to be a way around these ridiculous fees. We are not paid, I doubt that we bring in new business or motivate current customers to purchase more food.WE also perform at senior centers and assisted living homes. Are these businesses subject to this extortion too?
Members bostonwal Posted January 10, 2009 Members Posted January 10, 2009 Huh? SESAC and BMI are working for the musicians - the people who write the songs. You must be playing covers. Commercial establishments (theoretically) have to pay a license fee if they play music from a BMI or ASCAP artist, which makes sense since the music helps the establishment attract customers and make money. Anyway, this is one way people who write music get royalties. It's not enforced nearly as much as it could be because the resources aren't there to track every song played in every establishment. Play originals if you want to get around it. Or write a song that everbody likes and collect the royalties on it - or extortion as you call it.
Members stellaguy Posted January 10, 2009 Members Posted January 10, 2009 My group plays easy listening music at a local diner one day a week (3 hours) . We do not get paid, we just perform for the experience. The owner of the diner just received letters from SESAC and BMI demanding that she pay them hundreds of dollars for rights to play music. There has got to be a way around these ridiculous fees. We are not paid, I doubt that we bring in new business or motivate current customers to purchase more food.WE also perform at senior centers and assisted living homes. Are these businesses subject to this extortion too? I certainly wouldn't be looking for loopholes around a situation like this, legally the owner of the Diner should be paying up, it's not a case of whether she wants to or not...
Members bostonwal Posted January 10, 2009 Members Posted January 10, 2009 How big is the restaurant and in what city? I'm surprised to even hear about a case of enforcing licensing in restaurtants. They certainly do radio stations in the big markets. Overall, this area of licensing fees does not generate much income just because they don't spend the resources to enforce it. However, with the changing music industry I wouldn't be surprised if BMI and ASCAP are increasing their enforcement to make up for whatever lost income is occurring in other areas of the industry.
Members richardmac Posted January 10, 2009 Members Posted January 10, 2009 How big is the restaurant and in what city? I'm surprised to even hear about a case of enforcing licensing in restaurtants. They certainly do radio stations in the big markets. Overall, this area of licensing fees does not generate much income just because they don't spend the resources to enforce it. However, with the changing music industry I wouldn't be surprised if BMI and ASCAP are increasing their enforcement to make up for whatever lost income is occurring in other areas of the industry. That is exactly what they're doing. Stories of them busting small businesses are actually becoming more and more common. What this will do, essentially, is kill more opportunities for musicians to play. Yes, they have every right to bust down on the small mom and pops, but they've almost always looked the other way in the past.
Members BlueStrat Posted January 10, 2009 Members Posted January 10, 2009 How big is the restaurant and in what city? I'm surprised to even hear about a case of enforcing licensing in restaurtants. They certainly do radio stations in the big markets. Overall, this area of licensing fees does not generate much income just because they don't spend the resources to enforce it. However, with the changing music industry I wouldn't be surprised if BMI and ASCAP are increasing their enforcement to make up for whatever lost income is occurring in other areas of the industry. Around here they enforce collection spottily but in all venues-malls, bars and clubs, restaurants, and concert and festival events. At some of the festivals I've played I had to sign a form stating that I would only play original songs so as to avoid the licensing fees assessed to the promoters.
Members BlueStrat Posted January 10, 2009 Members Posted January 10, 2009 That is exactly what they're doing. Stories of them busting small businesses are actually becoming more and more common. What this will do, essentially, is kill more opportunities for musicians to play. Yes, they have every right to bust down on the small mom and pops, but they've almost always looked the other way in the past. I don't know what the big deal is. It isn't that much. Something like $300-1000 a year depending on how much live music a club has. A six night a week place like a lounge or a strip club might pay 2 k a year, but if they can afford music 6 nights they can afford 2k. Jukeboxes, satellite radio and Muzak systems already have the licensing figured into the monthly fee.
Members Alan Roberts Posted January 13, 2009 Members Posted January 13, 2009 I've seen a real crack down on the smaller businesses here. Even out in the 'burbs. I guess when times are hard they're tryin' to bring in every dollar they can.
Moderators daddymack Posted January 13, 2009 Moderators Posted January 13, 2009 Around here they enforce collection spottily but in all venues-malls, bars and clubs, restaurants, and concert and festival events. At some of the festivals I've played I had to sign a form stating that I would only play original songs so as to avoid the licensing fees assessed to the promoters. We have signed those waiver forms as well when doing festivals, and frankly, the fee as noted is there to pay the songwriters, so the real question is how committed to the music is the venue, or, can the band sustain themselves on originals for 3 hours a week.
Members bostonwal Posted January 14, 2009 Members Posted January 14, 2009 Is anyone auditing BMI and ASCAP? If you play a Springsteen song in a restaurant is Springsteen actually getting a royalty from that particular play or are BMI/ASCAP just pocketing the fee?
Moderators daddymack Posted January 14, 2009 Moderators Posted January 14, 2009 Is anyone auditing BMI and ASCAP? If you play a Springsteen song in a restaurant is Springsteen actually getting a royalty from that particular play or are BMI/ASCAP just pocketing the fee? not exactly...there is a whole arcane system regarding how the $ gets allocated, but ASCAP et al. do perform a needed service in the industry.
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