CD sales way down in 2008 compared to 2000, check it out

[Cry Logic]

But of course it has nothing to do with downloading, right? I wish all of the people who made that lame argument for years (while they were downloading files by the boatload I'm sure) had to stand up in public and admit how wrong they were.

 

Man that Horse is taking a flogging from you Dean.

 

So you continue to harp on and on about illegal downloading.

 

Do you have a solution to the problem?

[Cry Logic]

Anyone here actually listened to Lil Wayne's hit album?

[BlueStrat]

 

A major part of that is the difference in the Radio industry, more than what the public listens to, IMO. DJ's in 1972 weren't attached to the playlist of the Corporation that owned the station.

 

 

I'll echo Intropsection and agree that this is a good point. In fact, because a good portion of most radio stations these days is done with pre-programmed hard drives set up by the PD, making the "on air personality" little more than a set-up guy for the weather and traffic reports. Most so-called 'djs' couldn't play a request if they got one anymore. This is why so many of them play 'something by the same artist'-it's already on the hard drive, culled from the approved playlist.

[S.L.B.]

 

I'll echo Intropsection and agree that this is a good point. In fact, because a good portion of most radio stations these days is done with pre-programmed hard drives set up by the PD, making the "on air personality" little more than a set-up guy for the weather and traffic reports. Most so-called 'djs' couldn't play a request if they got one anymore. This is why so many of them play 'something by the same artist'-it's already on the hard drive, culled from the approved playlist.

 

 

Actually I think this is a lot bigger part of the problem then we may like to think. I basically hadn't listened to radio for the past 4 -5 years because I was so tired of hearing the same crap on every station 3 , 4 even 5 and 6 times a day. They push the same songs so hard that you have no choice...I'd find myself humming songs that I thought were absolute crap the first dozen times I heard them but you can't help it starting to let it seap in after hearing it over and over.......I think lots of people got tired of it and went on their way. I only recently got back into active listening and searching out bands that I enjoy its hard work finding good bands, and lets face it most people don't have the time or energy to wade through crap music for days on end to find something digestable. Its easier to just give in and buy the brainwashed music, or do what more and more people are doing and just buy nothing.

[nwtsnma]

 

Do you have a solution to the problem?

 

 

there is no solution because there is no problem

[nwtsnma]

 

Back in 1971 and the 1970's, the public had to choose them. You seemed to overlook this crucial aspect: They weren't singles and weren't intended for official radio airplay.

 

 

they were intended for unofficial radio airplay. "independent promoters"

[BlueStrat]

 

they were intended for unofficial radio airplay. "independent promoters"

 

 

Baloney.

 

Provide a link to back this up.

[nwtsnma]

 

Baloney. Provide a link to back this up.

 

 

 

In the 1970s, rock album sales accounted for an increasing proportion of record company profits, but the AOR format remained somewhat experimental until technological improvements brought stereophonic capabilities to FM radio. This change attracted top 40 formats to FM and made it far more competitive. As FM rock radio matured, its audience widened and it became apparent to record labels that AOR stations, especially those in large market cities, were effective if not critical marketing media for their products. The growing importance of AOR radio, both to station owners and record companies, worked to narrow the weekly playlists. Station owners, hoping to maintain ratings, copied many top-40 programming strategies and curtailed the number of songs in heavy rotation, keeping many of the obscure bands and esoteric album cuts from ever getting air time. Record companies sought to boost album sales by manipulating AOR stations' playlist. In order to avoid the recurrence of a 1950s style "payola" scandal, record companies subcontracted the promotion of their records to radio stations via "independent promoters." Through independent promotion, record companies could maintain a facade of legality, even though the means independent promoters employed to secure air time for the labels was clearly outside the bounds of fair access to public airwaves. Not only were station programmers frequently bribed with drugs and money, they were occasionally threatened with bodily harm if they did not comply with the demands of the independent promoters. According to Frederick Dannen, author of Hit Men, the secrecy, illegality, and lucrative nature of independent promotion eventually invited the involvement of organized crime syndicates, and the development of a cartel among the leading independent promoters... Several important rock anthems of the 1970s, such as Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" and Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Freebird," may have had far less success without AOR stations.

 

http://www.bookrags.com/research/album-oriented-rock-sjpc-01/

[BlueStrat]

 

http://www.bookrags.com/research/album-oriented-rock-sjpc-01/

 

 

 

That's an interesting history lesson, but it doesn't make your point. . Where does it say they were "intended for unofficial radio airplay"? No one denies that AOR radio made them hits. But they weren't released as singles. That's the point. Listeners made them hits.

[nwtsnma]

 

That's an interesting history lesson, but it doesn't make your point. . Where does it say they were "intended for unofficial radio airplay"? No one denies that AOR radio made them hits. But they weren't released as singles. That's the point. Listeners made them hits.

 

 

radio stations made them hits

[BlueStrat]

 

radio stations made them hits

 

 

Since both Stairway and Freebird were on albums that were already owned by millions of people before either of them saw a second of airplay, you have it exactly backwards. Radio stations began playing them because they were already hit songs with the people who had the records.

 

Led Zep IV came out in 1971. Rock and Roll and Black Dog were hits off of that album, followed by Misty Mountain Hop. Stairway didn't get any real airplay until late '72-early '73.

 

Likewise with Skynyrd-Their frst album with FB on it came out in 1973. Gimme 3 Steps was the hit single followed by Tuesday's Gone. Freebird didn't get airplay until about a year or more later.

 

At least that's how it was where I lived. Both albums came out while I was in high school. Maybe it was different in other markets. I doubt it though.

 

The point is, radio didn't make them hits. Listeners did.

[bostonwal]

 

The drop in CD sales wouldn't have to do with poor value ($18 for one good song while the remaining 15 are crap fillers) or lack of talent to choose from (major labels only sign the idiot no-talent bands because they don't bother to read the indentured sertivude contract), would it? Naaaaaaaaaaah....

 

 

Really? Seriously? The year 2000 was a year of "better bands"?????? You prefer 'N Sync, Britney and Creed I guess? Or maybe the Backstreet Boys or Destiny's Child?

 

Top Selling Albums of 2000:

1. 'N Sync: ''No Strings Attached,'' (Jive) 9.94 million

2. Eminem: ''The Marshall Mathers LP,'' (Aftermath/ Interscope) 7.92 million

3. Britney Spears: ''Oops!...I Did It Again,'' (Jive) 7.89 million

4. Creed: ''Human Clay,'' (Wind-Up)** 6.59 million

5. Santana: ''Supernatural,'' (Arista)** 5.86 million

6. The Beatles: ''1,'' (Capitol) 5.07 million

7. Nelly: ''Country Grammar,'' (Fo' Real/ Universal) 5.07 million

8. Backstreet Boys: ''Black & Blue,'' (Jive) 4.29 million

9. Dr. Dre: ''Dr. Dre 2001,'' (Aftermath/ Interscope)** 3.99 million

10. Destiny's Child: ''The Writing’s on the Wall,'' (Columbia)** 3.80 million

11. 3 Doors Down: ''The Better Life,'' (Republic/ Universal) 3.80 million

12. Christina Aguilera: ''Christina Aguilera,'' (RCA)** 3.77 million

13. Limp Bizkit: ''Chocolate Starfish...,'' (Flip/ Interscope) 3.74 million

14. Dixie Chicks: ''Fly,'' (Monument)** 3.52 million

15. Sisqó: ''Unleash the Dragon,'' (Def Soul)** 3.49 million

16. Faith Hill: ''Breathe,'' (Warner Bros.)** 3.37 million

17. Various Artists: ''NOW...! Vol. 5,'' (Sony/ Zomba/ UME/ EMI) 3.16 million

18. DMX: ''...And Then There Was X,'' (Ruff Ryders/ Def Jam)** 3.09 million

19. Kid Rock: ''Devil Without a Cause,'' (Top Dog/ Lava/ Atlantic)** 2.80 million

20. Papa Roach: ''Infest,'' (DreamWorks/ Interscope) 2.71 million

21. Celine Dion: ''All the Way...A Decade of Song,'' (550/ Epic)** 2.70 million

22. Macy Gray: ''On How Life Is,'' (Epic)** 2.67 million

23. matchbox twenty: ''Mad Season,'' (Lava/ Atlantic) 2.53 million

24. Baha Men: ''Who Let the Dogs Out,'' (S-Curve/ Artemis) 2.40 million

25. Various Artists: ''NOW...! Vol. 4 ,'' (EMI/ Sony/ Zomba/ UME) 2.38 million

 

 

Top Selling of 2008:

1 THA CARTER III LIL' WAYNE 2,778,260

2 VIVA LA VIDA OR DEATH AND ALL HIS FRIENDS COLDPLAY 2,032,956

3 ROCK N ROLL JESUS KID ROCK 1,882,911

4 BLACK ICE AC/DC 1,675,568

5 FEARLESS TAYLOR SWIFT 1,519,377

6 TAYLOR SWIFT TAYLOR SWIFT 1,466,897

7 Sleep Through The Static Jack Johnson 1,464,659

8 DEATH MAGNETIC METALLICA 1,442,636

9 PAPER TRAIL T.I. 1,389,058

10 SPIRIT LEONA LEWIS 1,329,851

11 A LITTLE BIT LONGER JONAS BROTHERS 1,270,826

12 MAMMA MIA! SOUNDTRACK 1,238,044

13 E=MC2 MARIAH CAREY 1,208,529

14 BREAKOUT MILEY CYRUS 1,192,661

15 LOVE ON THE INSIDE SUGARLAND 1,178,593

16 GOOD GIRL GONE BAD RIHANNA 1,170,849

17 CAMP ROCK SOUNDTRACK 1,162,666

18 AS I AM ALICIA KEYS 1,108,072

19 HERE I STAND USHER 1,099,254

20 I AM…SASHA FIERCE BEYONCE 1,052,543

21 HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 3: SENIOR YEAR SOUNDTRACK 1,044,016

22 NOW 28 VARIOUS ARTISTS 960,074

23 JUNO SOUNDTRACK 890,924

24 JONAS BROTHERS JONAS BROTHERS 883,652

25 NOW 27 VARIOUS ARTISTS 833,510

[pjrake]

 

Really? Seriously? The year 2000 was a year of "better bands"?????? You prefer 'N Sync, Britney and Creed I guess? Or maybe the Backstreet Boys or Destiny's Child?

 

 

what's wrong with creed, or destiny's child? if you don't like their music, that's cool (we're all entitled to it), but both are very good artist who wrote alot of catchy, hook driven music. especially creed, they are one of my top bands, and human clay was a great album. mark tremonti is a very good songwriter. listen to some of his newer stuff in alter bridge.

 

the reason sales are down has nothing to do with who's out there right now; it has to do with the fact that this new generation thinks that music is free and there's nothing wrong with downloading it.

 

look at the two "rock" bands on the current list: metallica and AC/DC. their album went platinum. that's probably because most of the fans that actually purchased the album are from the past generation who still believe in buying music, not downloading (legal or otherwise). if metallica and AC/DC were two new bands just releasing their debut album, they wouldn't be near that list (or going platinum).

 

-PJ

[rawhedrex]

I dont think theres an easy solution to this problem, and unfortunately consumers are going to eat their own tails until its too late.

 

Maybe if more audio DVDs and stuff mixed in 5.1 - or higher bitrate stuff finds its home on media that accomidates large file sizes that are markedly better sound quality it might make a difference to some - but i doubt it, simply because crap quality througha crap sound device has proven of late to be more than enough for most.

 

maybe bands might just stop releasing stuff at all, and focus more on playing live - if people dont want to buy CDs then they better be happy with the way things were before you could.......

 

and the argument that quality is falling and all this {censored} about disney is moot, as the market shrinks - you can kiss your niches goodbye and welcome a tide of mediocrity, because 14 year old girls love mediocrity.

[bostonwal]

 

what's wrong with creed, or destiny's child? if you don't like their music, that's cool (we're all entitled to it), but both are very good artist who wrote alot of catchy, hook driven music. especially creed, they are one of my top bands, and human clay was a great album. mark tremonti is a very good songwriter. listen to some of his newer stuff in alter bridge. the reason sales are down has nothing to do with who's out there right now; it has to do with the fact that this new generation thinks that music is free and there's nothing wrong with downloading it. look at the two "rock" bands on the current list: metallica and AC/DC. their album went platinum. that's probably because most of the fans that actually purchased the album are from the past generation who still believe in buying music, not downloading (legal or otherwise). if metallica and AC/DC were two new bands just releasing their debut album, they wouldn't be near that list (or going platinum). -PJ

 

 

Well, that was my point. I thought it was ludicrous to blame the difference in sales of the top 25 selling albums in 2000 to 2008 on some difference in quality of music.

 

downloading is fine. illegal downloading is not.

 

People should know that there is a solution to illegal downloading - allow ISPs to stop mp3 files from passing through their network. So, there could be a stop to all the hand wringing. That would certainly never happen but some variation of that could be implemented, and I believe it is starting. Anyway, the ISPs are the path to a solution.

 

Also, the lower the price gets for songs on iTunes, the less piracy there will be. Guaranteed. Prices were just dropped 20% for songs - down to 79 cents. The lower the price, the more illegal downloaders will switch to legal downloading. There is an optimal price which would lead to a combination of minimal piracy and maximum revenue. We just have to find out what it is.

[bostonwal]

 

Really? Seriously? The year 2000 was a year of "better bands"?????? You prefer 'N Sync, Britney and Creed I guess? Or maybe the Backstreet Boys or Destiny's Child? Top Selling Albums of 2000: 1. 'N Sync: ''No Strings Attached,'' (Jive) 9.94 million 2. Eminem: ''The Marshall Mathers LP,'' (Aftermath/ Interscope) 7.92 million 3. Britney Spears: ''Oops!...I Did It Again,'' (Jive) 7.89 million 4. Creed: ''Human Clay,'' (Wind-Up)** 6.59 million 5. Santana: ''Supernatural,'' (Arista)** 5.86 million 6. The Beatles: ''1,'' (Capitol) 5.07 million 7. Nelly: ''Country Grammar,'' (Fo' Real/ Universal) 5.07 million 8. Backstreet Boys: ''Black & Blue,'' (Jive) 4.29 million 9. Dr. Dre: ''Dr. Dre 2001,'' (Aftermath/ Interscope)** 3.99 million 10. Destiny's Child: ''The Writing’s on the Wall,'' (Columbia)** 3.80 million 11. 3 Doors Down: ''The Better Life,'' (Republic/ Universal) 3.80 million 12. Christina Aguilera: ''Christina Aguilera,'' (RCA)** 3.77 million 13. Limp Bizkit: ''Chocolate Starfish...,'' (Flip/ Interscope) 3.74 million 14. Dixie Chicks: ''Fly,'' (Monument)** 3.52 million 15. Sisqó: ''Unleash the Dragon,'' (Def Soul)** 3.49 million 16. Faith Hill: ''Breathe,'' (Warner Bros.)** 3.37 million 17. Various Artists: ''NOW...! Vol. 5,'' (Sony/ Zomba/ UME/ EMI) 3.16 million 18. DMX: ''...And Then There Was X,'' (Ruff Ryders/ Def Jam)** 3.09 million 19. Kid Rock: ''Devil Without a Cause,'' (Top Dog/ Lava/ Atlantic)** 2.80 million 20. Papa Roach: ''Infest,'' (DreamWorks/ Interscope) 2.71 million 21. Celine Dion: ''All the Way...A Decade of Song,'' (550/ Epic)** 2.70 million 22. Macy Gray: ''On How Life Is,'' (Epic)** 2.67 million 23. matchbox twenty: ''Mad Season,'' (Lava/ Atlantic) 2.53 million 24. Baha Men: ''Who Let the Dogs Out,'' (S-Curve/ Artemis) 2.40 million 25. Various Artists: ''NOW...! Vol. 4 ,'' (EMI/ Sony/ Zomba/ UME) 2.38 million Top Selling of 2008: 1 THA CARTER III LIL' WAYNE 2,778,260 2 VIVA LA VIDA OR DEATH AND ALL HIS FRIENDS COLDPLAY 2,032,956 3 ROCK N ROLL JESUS KID ROCK 1,882,911 4 BLACK ICE AC/DC 1,675,568 5 FEARLESS TAYLOR SWIFT 1,519,377 6 TAYLOR SWIFT TAYLOR SWIFT 1,466,897 7 Sleep Through The Static Jack Johnson 1,464,659 8 DEATH MAGNETIC METALLICA 1,442,636 9 PAPER TRAIL T.I. 1,389,058 10 SPIRIT LEONA LEWIS 1,329,851 11 A LITTLE BIT LONGER JONAS BROTHERS 1,270,826 12 MAMMA MIA! SOUNDTRACK 1,238,044 13 E=MC2 MARIAH CAREY 1,208,529 14 BREAKOUT MILEY CYRUS 1,192,661 15 LOVE ON THE INSIDE SUGARLAND 1,178,593 16 GOOD GIRL GONE BAD RIHANNA 1,170,849 17 CAMP ROCK SOUNDTRACK 1,162,666 18 AS I AM ALICIA KEYS 1,108,072 19 HERE I STAND USHER 1,099,254 20 I AM…SASHA FIERCE BEYONCE 1,052,543 21 HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 3: SENIOR YEAR SOUNDTRACK 1,044,016 22 NOW 28 VARIOUS ARTISTS 960,074 23 JUNO SOUNDTRACK 890,924 24 JONAS BROTHERS JONAS BROTHERS 883,652 25 NOW 27 VARIOUS ARTISTS 833,510

 

 

 

The Baha Men sold more in 2000 than Coldplay sold in 2008. amazing.

[pjrake]

 

Well, that was my point. I thought it was ludicrous to blame the difference in sales of the top 25 selling albums in 2000 to 2008 on some difference in quality of music. downloading is fine. illegal downloading is not. People should know that there is a solution to illegal downloading - allow ISPs to stop mp3 files from passing through their network. So, there could be a stop to all the hand wringing. That would certainly never happen but some variation of that could be implemented, and I believe it is starting. Anyway, the ISPs are the path to a solution. Also, the lower the price gets for songs on iTunes, the less piracy there will be. Guaranteed. Prices were just dropped 20% for songs - down to 79 cents. The lower the price, the more illegal downloaders will switch to legal downloading. There is an optimal price which would lead to a combination of minimal piracy and maximum revenue. We just have to find out what it is.

 

 

ah, i misread it... and very good points. i think you're right that ISP is where the solution lies.

 

i also think quality should be a factor also. with high speed getting ever faster, maybe the quality of songs on iTunes can increase. the last song i purchased on iTunes the quality was AAC at 128kbps (2.4MB)

 

-PJ

[bostonwal]

 

ah, i misread it... and very good points. i think you're right that ISP is where the solution lies. i also think quality should be a factor also. with high speed getting ever faster, maybe the quality of songs on iTunes can increase. the last song i purchased on iTunes the quality was AAC at 128kbps (2.4MB) -PJ

 

 

Well, AAC 128kbps is equivalent to 256 mp3, so it can certainly improve, but 128AAC/256 mp3 is pretty good quality.

 

EDIT: actually iTunes just bumped up to 256 AAC.

[chadd]

Obviously downloading has had a negative impact on CD sales, but without sales info from itunes and other sites, it's not a complete picture. You also have people spending a buck or two on itunes for the songs they really want instead of $20 for the full CD. Add in the plethora of other audio options that really weren't in existence 10 or 20 years ago and you have less natural demand for music purchases, on top of the illegal downloads.

[Mosby]

 

Also, the lower the price gets for songs on iTunes, the less piracy there will be. Guaranteed. Prices were just dropped 20% for songs - down to 79 cents. The lower the price, the more illegal downloaders will switch to legal downloading. There is an optimal price which would lead to a combination of minimal piracy and maximum revenue. We just have to find out what it is.

 

 

One could also pose the argument that because the song costs so little, then why even pay for it? Not to mention the fact that it just devalues music even further.

[HCarlH]

 

Maybe if more audio DVDs and stuff mixed in 5.1 - or higher bitrate stuff finds its home on media that accomidates large file sizes that are markedly better sound quality it might make a difference to some - but i doubt it, simply because crap quality througha crap sound device has proven of late to be more than enough for most.

 

 

You can thank the iPod for at least 50% blame in the decline in CD sales.

 

When kids grow up listening to crappy sounding MP3s and are used to it, why buy an uncompressed, full range CD when you can get the same sound you're used to for free?

[nwtsnma]

 

You can thank the iPod for at least 50% blame in the decline in CD sales. When kids grow up listening to crappy sounding MP3s and are used to it, why buy an uncompressed, full range CD when you can get the same sound you're used to for free ?

 

 

yes. you see this as a problem but it's just the way it is. you've bought into the notions of 20th century technological fidelity but these notions are receding in importance as the audiophile vanishes ie. no one cares anymore

[pjrake]

 

you see this as a problem but it's just the way it is.

 

 

and you don't?

 

when you spend 5 to 10k recording your next album out of pocket and it ends up on torrent sites, maybe then you'll change your mind.

 

-PJ

[Instrospection]

 

but i doubt it, simply because crap quality througha crap sound device has proven of late to be more than enough for most.

 

 

Exactly. Convienience and ease will always make people reduce their standards. Free makes people do things and accept things that they normally wouldn't.

 

Truthfully, I think that alot of audiences have ridiculous expectations of what constitutes a release worthy of being paid for.....could anyone imagine any industry surviving on the goodwill and charity of what people felt like dropping into the hat? I can't. You'd end up with volunteers to do things for free for charities.....like how the music biz typically is going these days.

 

In the end, music is entertainment. But there is a misguided notion that people should be entertained for free with movies, music, games, programs, etc online and then think that there's no cost with it. That cost is the continuity and longevity of quality.

[BlueStrat]

and you don't? when you spend 5 to 10k recording your next album out of pocket and it ends up on torrent sites, maybe then you'll change your mind. -PJ

 

 

He won't spend that much. He thinks sounding like {censored} is A-ok since apparently no one cares.