Venues investing in bands

[ZERO HEROES]

Are there any venues in the US that invest in their local bands?

 

I bring this up because the Dallas music scene died a few years ago. There are so many venues that spend big $$$ on their bar, but yet do nothing to invest in the local bands.

 

(BTW, I don't need the $$$, but I would like to see others get help)

[The*Ataris]

You don't think a club is making an investment every time they book you? That's the way I look at it...

 

It's just like the market: if somebody buys a few shares in a company - and it does well - don't you think they're inclined to buy more? It works the same way with bands.

 

People will always buy drinks at the bar. Bands come and go, and only the best make any money.

[ZERO HEROES]

 

You don't think a club is making an investment every time they book you? That's the way I look at it... It's just like the market: if somebody buys a few shares in a company - and it does well - don't you think they're inclined to buy more? It works the same way with bands. People will always buy drinks at the bar. Bands come and go, and only the best make any money.

 

 

 

 

Don't you think it's also in the interest of the venue that bands be the best they can be? Less and less bands, and good bands, means less people at the venues.

[sabriel9v]

 

You don't think a club is making an investment every time they book you? That's the way I look at it... It's just like the market: if somebody buys a few shares in a company - and it does well - don't you think they're inclined to buy more? It works the same way with bands. People will always buy drinks at the bar. Bands come and go, and only the best make any money.

 

 

This is true, but many clubs don't act as if they're making a serious investment every time. They charge bs production fees that honestly have to do nothing with production. They double or even triple book sometimes and half of them don't even do a solid job of promoting the shows that they book. From that perspective, I would say no, venues do not invest in bands. However, venues are interested in making quick, easy money that requires little to no work.

[BlueStrat]

Is there anything left in our culture that we shouldn't be subsidizing?

 

When did 'help me' become our national motto?

[gtrbass]

A club does not invest in a band. They purchase an entertainment service.

 

If they book original bands and do the whole P2P/door split kind of thing, they are simply a hall for hire. In truth they are providing a service - a place for bands to play.

 

Its really a matter of semantics. Companies 'invest' in employees, services and technology. If those investments don't produce results, they are eliminated in favor of other options.

[ZERO HEROES]

Is there anything left in our culture that we shouldn't be subsidizing? When did 'help me' become our national motto?

 

 

 

Investing and "subsidizing" are not the same.

[ZERO HEROES]

 

A club does not invest in a band. They purchase an entertainment service. If they book original bands and do the whole P2P/door split kind of thing, they are simply a hall for hire. In truth they are providing a service - a place for bands to play. Its really a matter of semantics. Companies 'invest' in employees, services and technology. If those investments don't produce results, they are eliminated in favor of other options.

 

 

 

That is not what I'm talking about.

[slight-return]

 

That is not what I'm talking about.

 

 

OK - maybe there is some misunderstanding -- could you clarify/amplify your thoughts on the hows and whys?

[BlueStrat]

 

Investing and "subsidizing" are not the same.

 

 

 

Explain the difference in what you're proposing.

[ZERO HEROES]

 

OK - maybe there is some misunderstanding -- could you clarify/amplify your thoughts on the hows and whys?

 

 

 

 

There are many ways, which some have been done, and some not. The ONE example I can think of right now is "sellaband", which I last heard about in '07, but I'm curious to know how their projects turned out. Not all bands need the same thing though, but the big picture remains the same.

 

There was a local band that I helped before I started my own. I loved their shows and the music was unique. I probably invested about $5K, which I got back in less than a year.

 

Personally, I don't know of any venues here that go beyond the "booking". If I was a venue owner and a talented band had potential to fill my venue, I'd help them out. Example, if they needed a trailer, help them out. I can think of a few ways to get money back from a trailer.

[slight-return]

could you amplify a little bit more on sellaband and these sorts of things (not familiar with them myself)?

 

a couple of things that immediately come to mind in terms of difficulty is opportunity cost, potential risk and how much competitive advantage the venue (the core biz) would realize from financing that sort of operation [esp if they are touring...the touring might not add enough draw to the venue, and if they are not contractually obligated to play only the investors' venue, the draw of that act could even be a negative draw at times]

 

With things like the touring trailer - that's sort of a general (as opposed to specific to venue operators) investment so securing financing from someone such as yourself, who's core biz in music performance, or someone involved in small venture cap. (a bank even) would be closer to the core competency of the investor

 

the potential synergy alsobrings to light the opportunity for local acts to invest in performance venues

[The*Ataris]

 

There are many ways, which some have been done, and some not. The ONE example I can think of right now is "sellaband", which I last heard about in '07, but I'm curious to know how their projects turned out. Not all bands need the same thing though, but the big picture remains the same. There was a local band that I helped before I started my own. I loved their shows and the music was unique. I probably invested about $5K, which I got back in less than a year. Personally, I don't know of any venues here that go beyond the "booking". If I was a venue owner and a talented band had potential to fill my venue, I'd help them out. Example, if they needed a trailer, help them out. I can think of a few ways to get money back from a trailer.

 

 

I think that's asking a lot in this economic climate, especially of the clubs we like dealing with. No one has a pile of capital lying around in this business.

 

I mean, they're all paying downtown leases, seeing fewer touring bands, and seeing fewer people splurge to see bands. If my BAND doesn't do well, it doesn't COST me money, you know?

 

But it's not like certain music entities don't take 'ownership' of certain music projects. We have a local clear channel station that gives regular airplay (not including their late-night local show) to all kinds of local bands, signed or unsigned, and really moved along the careers of lots of local bands (The Fray, 3oh!3, the Flobots, Meese, etc).

 

Hell, we had the nicest theatre in Colorado like us so much when we played there last week, they were willing to stick us on the front of any upcoming bill we wanted. That's commitment, right there, though a minimal monetary commitment.

[wheresgrant3]

I don't see any venue investing in bands or artists as a monetary investment level because there is never any definable level of return. It's possible a bar owner or promoter might 'invest' in a band they like, because they are a 'fan'... or just being part of the party... but I don't see where it would work on the venue level. It doesn't really make any sense for the venue. Why would a venue invest in an act that would travel around the country making money at other venues?

 

 

Now for established bands... this has been done. Take Vegas for instance. Established acts like Celine Dion, Linda Ronstat... etc. A casino might 'invest' in an entertainer in order to draw people to their hotel. They might build a special theater, provide top billing and have nightly gauranteed bookings. But never does the casino own part of that artist's management. They are two seperate entities. One is the venue, another provides a service.

[wheresgrant3]

 

Personally, I don't know of any venues here that go beyond the "booking". If I was a venue owner and a talented band had potential to fill my venue, I'd help them out. Example, if they needed a trailer, help them out. I can think of a few ways to get money back from a trailer.

 

 

 

How would helping a band get a trailer, so they can travel and earn money at other venues help fill your venue. That's called a loan, not really an 'investment'. The problem resides in the fact that most bands need to travel for exposure... the limits the amount even a popular band could perform at said venue. Now I'm sure over the years and in times past 9let's say the 70's for instance) there were many bar owners that 'invested' in bands that were poised to take off. However I'm sure in many cases investments were lost instead of gained.

 

BTW... the read success to any venue is in providing a space for many good acts to perform in. What would have happened if CBGB's was only opened when the 'Talking Heads' or 'the Ramones' performed. They would have closed their doors long before they did.

[ZERO HEROES]

 

I think that's asking a lot in this economic climate, especially of the clubs we like dealing with. No one has a pile of capital lying around in this business.

 

 

 

 

If I may quote the most recent rolling stone... "concert revenues soared, from $1.7 Billion to $3.9 Billion" (2000 to 2007).

[ZERO HEROES]

I have to get offline, but I'll reply to everyone tonight.

[The*Ataris]

 

If I may quote the most recent rolling stone... "concert revenues soared, from $1.7 Billion to $3.9 Billion" (2000 to 2007).

 

 

Guaranteed, they're only factoring in Livenation and AEG tours. Just because Madonna and AC/DC are charging $100 a ticket on recent stadium tours doesn't mean the indie club circuit is healthy.

 

Gas prices and lack of patronage brought independent tours to a screeching halt this fall. It will be interesting to see what this coming Spring has to offer...

[slight-return]

hmm, yeah if we can get a better analysis of the 'concert revenue soaring' thing (breakdown of things like dedicated concert venue v nightclub shows, major-label sponsored acts v independent acts, etc) that could be helpful as there could be massive bi-/multi-modality one U2 concert could probably skew the results that a couple hundred "bar bands" generate

 

There's a funny stats joke about aggregate descriptors "The average person has about one breast and one testicle"

 

 

Then again, maybe it points to a strategy where more bands could invest in major concert venues (diversifies their portfolio, even if their act doesn't stick, they can still get an ROI)

[BlueStrat]

 

Guaranteed, they're only factoring in Livenation and AEG tours. Just because Madonna and AC/DC are charging $100 a ticket on recent stadium tours doesn't mean the indie club circuit is healthy. Gas prices and lack of patronage brought independent tours to a screeching halt this fall. It will be interesting to see what this coming Spring has to offer...

 

 

 

Stole my thunder, but...yeah!

[sabriel9v]

There was a local band that I helped before I started my own. I loved their shows and the music was unique. I probably invested about $5K, which I got back in less than a year.

 

$5K? You need to be talkin to me then man

 

f I was a venue owner and a talented band had potential to fill my venue, I'd help them out. Example, if they needed a trailer, help them out. I can think of a few ways to get money back from a trailer.

 

Unfortunately from a business perspective, this is not a smart move. If venue owners and bookies genuinely want to help out bands, they need to put their dollars towards new and unique promotional strategies that include nicer flyers, ticket giveaways, etc. There are tons of talented bands and they will always exist...if a club owner bought a nice, new trailer for every good band out there, they'd be a million bucks in debt. My problem is with flaky bookies who want to call the shots, but do little to nothing to promote shows within their own venue in addition to charging "production fees."

[ZERO HEROES]

 

With things like the touring trailer - that's sort of a general (as opposed to specific to venue operators) investment so securing financing from someone such as yourself, who's core biz in music performance, or someone involved in small venture cap. (a bank even) would be closer to the core competency of the investor

 

 

 

You'll have to explain this a little better. You lost me.

[ZERO HEROES]

 

Unfortunately from a business perspective, this is not a smart move. If venue owners and bookies genuinely want to help out bands, they need to put their dollars towards new and unique promotional strategies that include nicer flyers, ticket giveaways, etc. There are tons of talented bands and they will always exist...if a club owner bought a nice, new trailer for every good band out there, they'd be a million bucks in debt. My problem is with flaky bookies who want to call the shots, but do little to nothing to promote shows within their own venue in addition to charging "production fees."

 

 

 

If you want to encourage people to see a band again, you'll need more than a nice poster or flyer.

[ZERO HEROES]

 

Gas prices and lack of patronage brought independent tours to a screeching halt this fall. It will be interesting to see what this coming Spring has to offer...

 

 

I see a solution.

[slight-return]

 

You'll have to explain this a little better. You lost me.

 

 

 

my apologies

 

which parts seem to be losing you?