Advice on a new approach to marketing?

[Enkidu]

Long time lurker, first time poster on this forum.

 

After being in several small time touring bands I have come to the conclusion that DIY tours without fans where you are going is a complete waste of time.

 

You almost never recoup costs, and rarely play to more than 50 people.

 

So I have decided instead of losing money and only gaining a few fans every night instead of the first few tours I would try something a little different. I want to follow bigger tours like warped and other things that cater to a similar market and hand out backpacks full of DIY pressed EP's and merch to people on their way out at every show.

 

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on this approach?

[germs]

And you're worried about recouping costs associated with travel?

 

I swear to God I thought you would have said something like,

 

I've decided to just build up a fanbase around my hometown and region, then move into bigger territories as time and money allow.

 

That would have made sense.

[Enkidu]

I'm not worried about recouping costs. I'm just trying to find more effective ways to reach people.

 

I'm pretty sure I will lose money no matter how I go about things.

 

edit- In the majority of my bands our fan was almost completely outside of our local region. Most of our success was finding the packets of kids and scenes who liked us and bouncing around between them and let that grow. After some word of mouth an three or four {censored}ty tours we would have a decent following that we could depend on for places to crash and shows. I'm trying to find a quicker way to find those people. Its hard being a band playing a mix of thrash/hardcore/drone/ and pop punk.

[pjrake]

 

I want to follow bigger tours like warped and other things that cater to a similar market and hand out backpacks full of DIY pressed EP's and merch to people on their way out at every show.

 

 

obviously doing these types of shows will increase your fanbase. the problem is getting on the bill.

 

i think the best thing is to build a fanbase in your hometown first, before branching out.

 

-PJ

[daddymack]

Its hard being a band playing a mix of thrash/hardcore/drone/ and pop punk.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you may have answered your own question.

[BlueStrat]

 

I'm not worried about recouping costs. I'm just trying to find more effective ways to reach people.

 

Yet one more indication that notoriety is the new currency.

[The*Ataris]

There's a thread somewhere on this forum called something like, "Is it possible to tour Black Flag style anymore?" where I vehemently argued 'no'.

 

I'll propose the same argument here too: no, you're not going to DIY your way around the country under the current infrastructure. Yeah, you said you're not worried about recouping your 'marketing' costs, but it's another thing to throw money at an investment that isn't even remotely likely to be beneficial at all. I mean, let's face it: breaking into the music industry is as likely as winning the lottery, right?

 

I'll also point out that music is also becoming increasingly regional again due to touring costs that have skyrocketed in just the past year. This is especially true in a music scene as isolated as Denver, but it holds true in other markets as well. As a result, so much emphasis has been placed on local success by national labels and media outlets...

 

Case in point? Every successful local band from my area--from the Fray, to the Flobots--had done NO real touring before getting major label contracts. They all wrote good songs, got the attention of the right people, and started marketing nationally when there was money and influence moving them forward. I mean, at least get on tour with existing touring bands that can draw, right?

 

As far as handing out backpacks full of CD's at Warped Tour? I'm trying to understand exactly how you plan on going about it? Are you going to follow it around and pay to get in at every stop? Are you going to purchase a vendor's license from Kevin Lyman and hope it's worthwhile? Are you going to try and get a job on the tour (I've known people who have done so, but it's very competitive these days)? Whichever way you decide to get yourself in, how can you be sure your CD will make it to the CD player of whomever you hand it to? I remember going when I was younger (7-9 years ago?) and I can't recall hearing any of the CD's I was handed. Blame parking lot vodka chugging, thousands of teenage girls in bikini tops, or eight straight hours of rock and roll, but hand outs were the last thing on my mind. Just sayin'...

[ZERO HEROES]

 

obviously doing these types of shows will increase your fanbase. the problem is getting on the bill. i think the best thing is to build a fanbase in your hometown first, before branching out. -PJ

 

 

He said follow the show and hand out promotional stuff for his band, not be on the bill.

[ZERO HEROES]

 

So I have decided instead of losing money and only gaining a few fans every night instead of the first few tours I would try something a little different. I want to follow bigger tours like warped and other things that cater to a similar market and hand out backpacks full of DIY pressed EP's and merch to people on their way out at every show.

 

 

 

How much do you plan to spend?

 

BTW, don't do it cause people say it's a bad idea, it just need to done the right way. But it may be hard considering these venues probably have security to keep you from doing this. I've put cards on cars after shows and was stopped by some security. Some places you can get away with it very easily, others you just have to avoid the security all together.

[cherri]

 

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on this approach?

 

 

Your music IS your marketing plan. If your tunes have mass appeal, a local following will develop. Word of mouth from your loyal fans will increase your fan base, attract better venues, work into higher profile gigs in larger areas. Yes, you have to promote - by internet, word of mouth, promo packages mailed out.

 

IMHO, gloming on to another established tour and passing out your EPs reeks of desperation. Hate to be blunt, but if your band is THAT good, you'd be playing Warped Tour, not following it around.

 

I've read numerous posts in these forums about how "our band is SO niche, our music is SO different, that we can't get a local following because "the locals are musically ignorant". But we're so awesome that if A&R people see us, we'll get signed!

 

Problem with that theory is that A&R people want to hear about bands that pack local shows and sell out of their CDs. Having a unique musical style will set you apart, but it's useless for promotion unless the average listener likes it.

 

I've experienced it. About a year and a half ago, just about every venue in ten counties decided they did not want to hire blues bands any more. We had to do a stylistic shakeup in order to continue gigging.

 

We are still promoting our original work, and still selling CDS, and still playing blues.... but not only blues. We watch the audience closely and AXE songs that don't get a solid response, even originals. We listen to the audience requests and learn them .....or other songs by those artists that we prefer. It's taking time, but we are developing that fan base again. It's a lot easier to sell an act when the booker has already heard of your work. This is the first year that we've played all shows that came to us.

[sabriel9v]

We watch the audience closely and AXE songs that don't get a solid response, even originals.

 

Screw the audience. If they don't like the song, they can get another round of drinks at the bar

[pjrake]

 

He said follow the show and hand out promotional stuff for his band, not be on the bill.

 

 

i misread the comment, sorry.

 

-PJ

[BlueStrat]

 

So I have decided instead of losing money and only gaining a few fans every night instead of the first few tours I would try something a little different. I want to follow bigger tours like warped and other things that cater to a similar market and hand out backpacks full of DIY pressed EP's and merch to people on their way out at every show. Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on this approach?

 

 

Wait....I just re-read this.

 

So what you're basically doing is throwing whatever you have up against the wall to see if any of it sticks.

 

This is a new marketing plan?

[MartinC]

My daughter is a rep for red bull-she's a college kid whose job it is to promote red bull. Some of the things they do are very strange to me, a 50 year old man who owns a flooring company. For example, they will tell her to find the best snowboarders in her school, then invite a dozen of them to an all expense paid weekend at a ski resort. Wine and dine them, pay for lift tickets, drinks, etc. Why? Because they think it makes them red bull customers for life. Frat party wants red bull-she delivers them by the case-they drink 'em up. Finals week-need a boost? If you know my kid, you are golden. This is all very strange to me, as I've never given away a carpet job to "make a customer". You want new carpet, ya gots to pay. But Red Bull makes about four million times what I do, so maybe giving away your music outside a concert full of music fans might actually work??? Of course when you finish the free can of red bull, next day, you want another, you have to buy one. Unless you have other cd's for sale or at least more tunes for sale on i-tunes, what can you expect someone who likes your music to do to help you recoup your investment? Expecting them to show up at your gig six months later may not be the best way to benefit from your efforts.

[The*Ataris]

My daughter is a rep for red bull-she's a college kid whose job it is to promote red bull. Some of the things they do are very strange to me, a 50 year old man who owns a flooring company. For example, they will tell her to find the best snowboarders in her school, then invite a dozen of them to an all expense paid weekend at a ski resort. Wine and dine them, pay for lift tickets, drinks, etc. Why? Because they think it makes them red bull customers for life. Frat party wants red bull-she delivers them by the case-they drink 'em up. Finals week-need a boost? If you know my kid, you are golden. This is all very strange to me, as I've never given away a carpet job to "make a customer". You want new carpet, ya gots to pay. But Red Bull makes about four million times what I do, so maybe giving away your music outside a concert full of music fans might actually work??? Of course when you finish the free can of red bull, next day, you want another, you have to buy one. Unless you have other cd's for sale or at least more tunes for sale on i-tunes, what can you expect someone who likes your music to do to help you recoup your investment? Expecting them to show up at your gig six months later may not be the best way to benefit from your efforts.

 

My little sister (22) has the same exact job: cram a bunch of pretty girls in a fleet of Red Bull-pimped mini coopers and have them go hand product out to everyone all over the state. It's the 'crack-cocaine' model; give the dude a hit so he can see what it's all about and then charge him when he's jonesing and desperate

 

This principal has been directly applied to dance music for years. Free online mix tapes + national tour = giant returns. Why do you think I have tickets to see Diplo in a couple of weeks for $20 a pop? I heard his work through free downloads...

[BlueStrat]

 

Of course when you finish the free can of red bull, next day, you want another, you have to buy one. Unless you have other cd's for sale or at least more tunes for sale on i-tunes, what can you expect someone who likes your music to do to help you recoup your investment? Expecting them to show up at your gig six months later may not be the best way to benefit from your efforts.

This is the Achilles heel in the give- it- away- for- free- and -they'll- buy- more-later theory in selling music, one I've been trying to point out for a few years. It isn't like giving away free samples of brownies or soup at Costco, or Red Bull. As you correctly pointed out, if you give away a few thousand dollars in free product but people in turn buy millions more, you've accomplished a mission. But after you've given away your free CD, what next? Who's going to go back and buy two or three more a week or month?

 

And by the way, I don't have a problem with a few downloads as samples. I do it myself. But a few free downloads does not = free CD.