Members Philter Posted September 28, 2008 Members Share Posted September 28, 2008 Oil companies make $.08 a gallon profit for everything they do to get the gas in your car including the refining and transport. Government takes an average of $.49 a gallon which at $4.00 a gallon is $1.96.Government does nothing but take a chunk and has no expence producing the product. Except for that whole thing about policing global shipping lanes and controlling the Middle East. Our huge military expenditure is in a large part due to our need to protect our energy interests around the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spokenward Posted September 28, 2008 Members Share Posted September 28, 2008 In addition, the market is already showing that it can work to solve this crisis. When Lehman was going under, Barclays was able to go through all their books, find the stuff they liked, and purchase a bunch of Lehman assets.If there is a buck to be made, capitalists will do it. You don't need the big-G Government Gorilla stepping in to give people a free pass for their greed (or mistakes, depending on your view). *Too much* government spending creates a whole slew of problems in its own right Barclay's funding since June has largely come from Sovereign Wealth Funds. We often don't get very good coverage of international business news here. That kind of distorts our view. Bloomberg link The notion that we have unfettered capitalism at work just is not ringing true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scud133 Posted September 28, 2008 Members Share Posted September 28, 2008 Barclay's funding since June has largely come from Sovereign Wealth Funds. We often don't get very good coverage of international business news here. That kind of distorts our view.Bloomberg linkThe notion that we have unfettered capitalism at work just is not ringing true. Well that's certainly possible... but I'm still pretty confident that a $700+ billion injection happening this quickly is a rash decision. Maybe Washington could throw a few crumbs at Wall Street to buy some time to really think about the best way to solve this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 28, 2008 Members Share Posted September 28, 2008 Well that's certainly possible... but I'm still pretty confident that a $700+ billion injection happening this quickly is a rash decision.Maybe Washington could throw a few crumbs at Wall Street to buy some time to really think about the best way to solve this? Here's the thing about the Bailout. It's a ruse. The Government inject more then 700 Billion into the banks in the last week alone!! LOOK! Bank Borrowing From Fed Already Exceeded Bailout Total in Last Week http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE48O9B920080925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bubbalou Posted September 29, 2008 Members Share Posted September 29, 2008 Hi Michael,I agree a good exec should make a good salary. I just disagree on what I feel is an exorbinate amount. This is across the board and not just with oil exec's.I feel if an oil company has that much money to throw at just the CEO then they should be charging maybe a dollar a gallon less at the pump and giving them a $100000-250000 bonus in addition to their salaries and not 7 to 8 million. When it starts hurting our country (Airlines, Trucking, Farming etc) they should back off for the good of the country and not just lining their pocketbooks.I am not angry at you as we all have the right to our opinions. Just seeing Airlines, trucking , farmers, mom and pop stores go out of business primarily because of the price of fuel (among others) is depressing, not to mention stressful.What companies, whether it be oil, Lenders or others do (my opinion in greed) is going to affect all of us.I guess the oil companies can continue and we will all be forced to mass transit or car pooling, higher prices on food, housing, clothing and about everything we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 This whole thing sucks, but if government doesn't step in, it's gonna be a long drop. Fox watching the henhouse. They engineered these conditions and I sure as hell don't trust them to fix it. It's the government's failed regulatory schemes (written by the bankers) that caused this whole situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 I wanted to ask you - or perhaps your friend - what he thinks of this article:http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/9/22/bailout-prevents-great-depression-20.htmlDoes this person have a point? Is any portion of this right? The first question should be: "Who owns UsNews.com?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 As we've all seen. The bailout a big no vote and as a result the biggest one day point drop (not percentage drop) in the DOW history. So we've all heard the main street v wall street cliche a million times now. However, I don't understand how people are able to segregate the 2 as if one doesn't completely rely on the other. As I watch the market tumble, I'm saddened by the delayed retirements those will experience as they try to wait out the current recession. My parents and in laws are both right at retirement age and when we talk numbers their faces grow long wondering how long it will take their nest egg to recover. Certainly, they could have shifted their portfolios to more conservative investments at their age... It seems to me the population most effected by the current market condition are those on the verge of retirment who straddle wall street and main street and for them, what's good for the market is good for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 Certainly, they could have shifted their portfolios to more conservative investments at their age... But some of the hardest hit areas were indeed conservative portfolios. It wouldn't have helped. Like I've said before, it's all about timing. The only reason I'm not up in arms about this is that I'm 40, and I can hope that in 25-30 years when I want to retire, the economy might happen to be at a good point in its inevitable cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 They engineered these conditions and I sure as hell don't trust them to fix it. Whom do you trust? Personally, the economy is something I know little about. One solution sounds about as good to me as another. One day the bail out sounded like a good fix to. On another day someone said it was a terrible idea, and so I thought maybe we should let the free market do it's free market thing. I honestly don't know. I don't know who to trust on this. Someone pragmatic I would hope.It really came along at a bad time too, because now everyone is afraid of how their decision might affect the election. I guess we'll see. But I sure don't have any answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 Whom do you trust?Personally, the economy is something I know little about. One solution sounds about as good to me as another. One day the bail out sounded like a good fix to. On another day someone said it was a terrible idea, and so I thought maybe we should let the free market do it's free market thing.I honestly don't know. I don't know who to trust on this. Someone pragmatic I would hope.It really came along at a bad time too, because now everyone is afraid of how their decision might affect the election.I guess we'll see. But I sure don't have any answers. Not to sound condescending, but why don't you educate yourself? The only reason you don't know anything about it is because you haven't taken the time to learn. The information is out there. And a complete education on just about anything you desire (short of brain surgery) is right here on the net! These issues affect you as a citizen and if you have a dedication to your civic responsibilities, you would educate yourself on these issues instead of looking to someone else for answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 Well, not to be too harsh on Super 8, I educate myself quite a bit and the issues still seem confusing to me. I oppose the bailout for the reasons I've discussed earlier, but the solutions to me are also confusing, which is why I posted that US News and World Report article. There's some things I feel I have a very good handle on, and some other issues that I'm not so sure about. I can't know everything. And not to toot my own horn, but I'm fairly intelligent... I find Super 8 admitting that he's not sure of something to be far more refreshing then someone who has adopted a position, and damned any facts to the contrary, he's going to dig his heels in further and keep his position no matter what. Now with all this being said, you're wrong about cassettes sounding better than MP3s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ViLo Posted September 30, 2008 Members Share Posted September 30, 2008 Thanks.Anyway, I signed the petition from this link:http://votenobailout.org/ And the other link that I provided also allows you to submit a letter to Congress:http://www.nowallstreetbailout.com/ I did too, thanks for the link, Ken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff Leites Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I find Super 8 admitting that he's not sure of something to be far more refreshing then someone who has adopted a position, and damned any facts to the contrary, he's going to dig his heels in further and keep his position no matter what. Good point. Now with all this being said, you're wrong about cassettes sounding better than MP3s... No, I provided a wiki-link to back up my rinky-dink theory. Check the other thread, Jack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'll check that out...didn't see that. Anyway, I'm just yankin' yer chain (but you knew that...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well boys, this is the backlash from the last 30 years of greed. Its not pretty. The bailout is a short term solution but regulation is the long term one. I know... not a pretty word to some but in reality, the best solution for most involved. The current system no longer works. Drastic change is needed and therefore, whether you agree or not with the bailout, change is a-coming. Remember "cash is king"? This will become quite evident in the next decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Thanks Jeff, I'd been looking for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Bankruptcy, not Bailout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Music Calgary Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Whom do you trust? Good title for a new Thorogood tune... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Bankruptcy, not Bailout This commentary breezes by the biggest impact of such a scenario. Bankruptcy of these companies (and the associated effect on the general market) will destroy many people's retirment income who in turn will turn to the govenment for assistence. These folks may be able to work a couple more years however economic downturn often means layoffs and those near retirement are often the first ones out the door. We will then end up spending just as much or more on an emergency Social Security suppliment. Granted, the policies must be changed and some companies will fail as a result. But all a hands off poicy will do is worsen the already downtrodden market. If you think you're punishing the rich in this scenario, think again. Those with the means will make a killing by riding out the recession and buying up all the discounted stocks that those who couldn't afford the risk sold off at huge losses to protect what little capital they had left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Thanks Jeff, I'd been looking for that one. Thats so true. I`m still on the side of letting this take its course. The system is severely imbalanced. It`ll hurt for a decade or so but it has to get back on course. Throwing 7 gazillion dollars at it does not help or teach any lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Not to sound condescending, but why don't you educate yourself? No condescension taken. People do need to understand the issues, and you are correct that information is very accessible thanks to technology. However, I'll have to add 'understanding the economy' to my list of about 100 other things I'm trying to learn, comprehend, keep abreast of, in addition to finding time to work, raise kids, maintain relationships, care for myself, make a little music, and occasionally use the bathroom. There are only so many hours in the day. And while I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent, I would never claim to be a quick learner. Plus, the people who do economics for a living can't seem to figure this stuff out. I'm not sure what chance I have. Nothing worse than an outspoken idiot with an opinion on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well, that's just it. Economists can't make up their minds or agree on solutions. It's very confusing, even if one really reads up on this issue. It's already confusing enough to most Americans to try and keep their credit card debt down, so to try and understand the extremely complex nuances of our economy is very difficult. And yes, there's nothing worse than an outspoken idiot with an opinion on everything. My friends and I have been discussing the economy. It's really weighing heavily on a lot of people's minds, definitely myself. And it's bewildering. We're all very well educated and all, but it's still very difficult to get a grasp on all the issues involved with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MichaelSaulnier Posted October 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 The Senate has spoken. What's up House? I got your toxic assets right here! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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