Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Recording 4-8 tracks live

Collapse
X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Recording 4-8 tracks live

    Been looking for awhile now to up my track count while recording live. Currently I use an Edirol R-09, your typical 2 track digital recorder that i plug into the record outs of my mixer.

    The Zoom H4n is pretty cool- in a small package, I'd get 4 tracks of recording. I assume you can use the built-in mics and then come in with a stereo line in, which is how I'd want to use it.

    But that's really just enough for me. I need at least 8 tracks to cover a small group.

    I don't want to bring a laptop to a gig. I was very surprised when I saw this by Behringer:
    XENYX UFX1604
    16-Input 4-Bus Mixer with 16x4 USB/FireWire Interface, 16-Track USB-Recorder
    http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/UFX1604.aspx

    This is the first time I've seen a flash drive used for multi-track recording. So with this mixer, you not only can record 16 tracks thru firewire/usb to a computer, it also records DIRECT TO FLASH DRIVE, all 16 tracks, no computer needed. This was displayed at NAMM 2011.

    Besides being out of my price range and a bigger mixer than I need/want (and it being a Behringer), I'd be very curious to read reviews to know if there's any major limitations. But what a great idea, if it works. I just thought USB flash drives were not capable of that kind of throughput.

    Another interesting board is the Zoom R24 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R24

    With 8 track simultaneous record to an SD card, it looks pretty sweet. But it's not much of a mixer for live sound, only volume control, so I'd have to have a mixer with direct outs to record 8 tracks at once. At $500, it's getting rave reviews from what I've seen.

    I really like the Firewire/USB 2.0 mixers that are regular mixers, but also do multi-track recording to the computer. But like I said, I don't want to bring a computer to a gig, so being able to record to onboard storage, like flash drives, sd cards or hard drive, would be great.

    The Korg D888 (discontinued) looks like an interesting option (pretty spendy though). With 8 track simultaneous record, built in hard drive and reasonable foot print, it could do the job; its not very full featured as a stand alone mixer though. All the inputs are mono, which is always a hassle with stereo keyboards- 1 volume fader please!

    -------

    So- wondering, any suggestions for achieving my goal:
    Starting with:
    > Small format mixer for live sound (4-6 mic channels, 3-4 stereo channels, 3 band eq with sweep mids, fx, at least 1-2 aux in addition to the internal fx send)

    And also having:
    > USB 2.0/Firewire computer recording
    > Onboard recording to flash/SD/hard drive

    Or other suggestions?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Budget ?
    I like Z Cars
    and Guitars

    Comment


    • #3
      16-Input 4-Bus Mixer with 16x4 USB/FireWire Interface, 16-Track USB-Recorder
      http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/UFX1604.aspx

      This is the first time I've seen a flash drive used for multi-track recording. So with this mixer, you not only can record 16 tracks thru firewire/usb to a computer, it also records DIRECT TO FLASH DRIVE, all 16 tracks, no computer needed.


      I think your reading the specs wrong. When it says it can record up to 16 tracks, it likely means you can record 4 channels at a time to a maximum or 4 tracks.

      You got to be real careful how you read specs. They twist the words and make you think it can do more than it can.
      Its got a 4 channel firewire interface built in so My guess is it only has 4 converters, that means its a 4 "channel" recorder that lets you record 4 tracks at a time.

      The Zoom may be the same deal. It bosts 24 tracks but mentions nothing about how many Channels you can record with at the same time.
      It looks like it might be 8 channels. You have to download the manual and look at the fine details. It may have 8 mic preamps plugged into two converters
      which means you can record 8 mics at once, into a stereo track. Again, these manufacturers write these adds to sucker you into thinking their equipment can do more than it can.
      It may be OK, its just they dont use the right terminology in their adds so you cant be sure of what they are selling you.

      Hard drive recorders dont have unlimited "tracks" like a DAW does in this case it only has 24.

      Comment


      • #4
        Budget?
        You can get a nicely spec'd live analog board, total of 12-16 channels, for under $500. I want the Firewire/USB to computer recording, and straight to Flash drive/SD/hard drive recording built in as well. I'd like to be in the $400-$600 range.

        For example, the Yamaha MG166cx: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG166CX/:
        It's got 4 stereo channels, mid sweep eq, 2 aux sends in addition to a dedicated fx send for internal fx, 1 knob compression on 6 channels, etc. It just lacks recording capability of any kind!

        WRGKMC wrote:
        I think your reading the specs wrong. When it says it can record up to 16 tracks, it likely means you can record 4 channels at a time to a maximum or 4 tracks.

        You got to be real careful how you read specs. They twist the words and make you think it can do more than it can.
        Its got a 4 channel firewire interface built in so My guess is it only has 4 converters, that means its a 4 "channel" recorder that lets you record 4 tracks at a time.

        The Zoom may be the same deal. It bosts 24 tracks but mentions nothing about how many Channels you can record with at the same time.
        It looks like it might be 8 channels. You have to download the manual and look at the fine details. It may have 8 mic pre-amps plugged into two converters
        which means you can record 8 mics at once, into a stereo track. Again, these manufacturers write these adds to sucker you into thinking their equipment can do more than it can.
        It may be OK, its just they don't use the right terminology in their adds so you cant be sure of what they are selling you.

        Hard drive recorders don't have unlimited "tracks" like a DAW does in this case it only has 24.


        Check out this forum thread where they talk about this new Behringer ufx-1604 mixer.
        http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-product-alert/583830-behringer-xenyx-ufx-1604-a.html

        The "16x4" means that it records 16 tracks at once (to computer or flash drive), and it'll receive 4 tracks back to the mixer.

        As for the Zoom R24, here's some ad copy:
        "In addition to 24-track playback and 8-track simultaneous recording using SD memory cards, the R24 is a digital multi-track recorder, an audio interface, a control surface and a pad sampler."

        As for the Korg D888 and its 80 gig hard drive recording: 8 simultaneous tracks, and a total of 64 virtual.

        So no, I don't think I read the specs wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          You need to download the manuals of all the ones your interested in and see which is the right one for you. I use the Mackie 1640i which gives you 16 to and from. Plus the 6 aux channels feed 6 individual headphone mixes to my live room. Its a swiss army knife, plus the preamps are fantastic. Thats what you need to review, the preamps on these lesser units.
          I like Z Cars
          and Guitars

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not sure when this Behringer is out, but it's interesting they took "UFX" from the RME UFX. Check the RME website, and find out what UFX can do. This is exactly what UFX does, as to the USB flash drive recording, but the price tag is $2K. When I wanted some location recording gears, I had to think about replacing 11 year old laptop and portable interface. But I chose UFX, because it can do all the 30ch recording to hard drive without bringing a computer.
            Gears: I don't know why I have so many gears that I don't need

            Comment


            • #7
              The "16x4" means that it records 16 tracks at once (to computer or flash drive), and it'll receive 4 tracks back to the mixer.
              So no, I don't think I read the specs wrong.


              No, you dont understand what 16X4 means.
              16 is the inputs.
              4 is the number of busses "and" the number converters you can record through at the same time.

              The members in the forum you linked me to agree if you were to read the posts.
              You can send any of the 16 inputs to the 4 busses for recording.
              The busses connect to the converters, not the individual channels

              With 16 inputs you could send four inputs to 4 busses and have 4 intruments on each track recorded per pass.
              You can then record 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 multitracking and get up to 16 tracks recorded but not all 16 at the same time.

              If it were a "16 channel recorder", it would be listed as 16X16 like any other manufacturer lists their equipment.

              Comment


              • #8
                But.....
                Check this Youtube at NAMM 2011
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eEsrLk2BP4

                If it really works as it claims, it'll be an interesting product.
                Gears: I don't know why I have so many gears that I don't need

                Comment


                • #9
                  But.....
                  Check this Youtube at NAMM 2011
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eEsrLk2BP4

                  If it really works as it claims, it'll be an interesting product.


                  Ah, you were misled by what a good salesman didnt say too.
                  He didnt lie he just left out a few choice and very important words.

                  He mentions it will record 16 tracks. Thats true.
                  it will record 4 X 4 X 4 X 4 for a maximum of 16.

                  He didnt mention it would record 16 tracks simutaniously thus the 16X4 still holds to be true in his sales pitch.

                  He also mentions that when a computer is connected, You can "Mix Down" from the unit.

                  Again very specific wording there. To me it means you can transfer 4 tracks at a time.

                  Its one thing about sales people and especially Behringer.
                  They are going to use technical language in a way to mislead you to thinking it can do more than it can
                  and is a reason another they have a bad rep in the industry.
                  They dont lie but they dont use established technical wording either.
                  I EBayed a 12 channel mixer and read their manual.
                  They said you could record 6 independant tracks off the board.
                  To a typical engineer that would mean it either had 6 busses or 6 inserts.
                  When it got down to reading the manual and trying it, the mixer had 2 main busses
                  two sub busses two effects sends. To record 6 independsnt tracks, you had to pan the two
                  main channles hard left and right, the two sub channels hard left and right, then use the two
                  effects sends to make 6.

                  They didnt lie, I could record 6 independant channels, but they hid the real facts deep in the manual.



                  When the product comes out and the manual is available to study, I'll be glad to recount my opinion if I find
                  to be wrong. Until then I just warn others that these tactics are used more and more by sellers to sucker
                  in non technical types and shouldnt be tolerated by those who know better.
                  From what I see here its just a mixer/ 16X4 hard disk recorder. No more no less.
                  Its not a bad piece of equipment. I wouldnt mind owning it when I first got into recording.
                  It does allow both live and studio work if thats your goal. But for $700 street price, I know I can do a hell of allot better.

                  They will be selling them on EBay for half the street price in a few years when buyers find they were hoodwinked into
                  buying them and try to recoup their investment. They will use the same advertisement making other think
                  it can record 16X16.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for checking the video!
                    I watched it again, and I agree, he didn't say "16 channel, independently". Not a single time. Let's see what people find out.
                    Gears: I don't know why I have so many gears that I don't need

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And from pictures I see of this Behringer it looks like it only has 8 preamps ? They other eight channels are probably a mixture of RCA and TRS inputs and or combos of those. So im my mind its only 8 channel. You see so many say 12 channel and you get 4 preamp channels, etc... You have to research. I spent a few weeks researching and READING MANUALS before I found what works for me.
                      I like Z Cars
                      and Guitars

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My rig will do up to 26 tracks at one time. It's probably out of budget, but it consists of 2x Presonus Fire Studio 2626 (8 Channel Preamp each), one Presonus Digimax FS (8 Channel Preamp) and one ART Digital MPA (2 Channel Preamp). Of course, when I'm recording a band through the system I have to have a computer there. I use a desktop computer rather than a laptop and all works well with a bunch of work setting up and getting it all going. The most tracks I have had to use so far is 15 or so. You can hear some location stuff at my website (go to page 2) if desired. I'd love to hear comments on some of the recordings also (and improvement comments on the website if interested in making them). Enjoy.
                        My new webpage: http://www.richardkingmedia.com/ Take a look and let me know what you think.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In this video he talks about 16 discreet channels being recorded to the flash drive:
                          http://musicgearforless.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=813

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Back to my original question: for under $1,000, and more realistically, under $600, I want at least 8 track simultaneous recording that's super simple. This is why I was focusing on analog mixers with firewire/usb capability: I obviously need a mixer, so if it has built-in recording capability, then I don't need to go through an additional interface/mixer/adc in order to be able to record.

                            And the Behringer UFX1604 improves on the genre by recording 16 tracks independently on a flash drive. But it's a bit larger and more expensive than I'd like, so I'm asking for SIMPLE solutions that people have come up with or thought of.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Behringer has only 8 preamps. So thats 8 mics you can plug in and record as seperate tracks. The other 8 "so called channels", are not preamp driven. Channel 1 and 2 offer DI also. Sounds like it fits your bill. It should be in your budget. Hopefully it sounds nice.
                              I like Z Cars
                              and Guitars

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X