Members Delmont Posted December 31, 2018 Members Share Posted December 31, 2018 Hey! Been playing guitar for a long time but have only recently started playing acoustic gigs fairly regularly. I've gone through a few active DIs and am finally happy with one: a Fire-Eye Red-Eye. My instruments have passive K&K pickups. They work fine. Now I'm trying to understand what passive DIs do. I know it has something to do with impedence and line levels and buffering, but I'm not sure what any of that means. At open mics, the hosts always want to run quarter-inch cables straight from the guitars to the PA. That seems to work. So what's the advantage of putting a passive DI and an XLR in between? And on the electric guitar front, I've read that passive DIs are also good to put after a Sansamp for recording and performing. Again, what's the advantage? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted December 31, 2018 Members Share Posted December 31, 2018 A passive DI is simply a transformer. Companies that make passive DIs, like Radial, say they're "better" for various self-serving reasons. Personally I like anything that doesn't require power but that's me. Basically, an active DI has a preamp built in while a passive one doesn't. That means they can have "more tricks" up their sleeves than their passive cousins, like built in EQ. Here's a lot more info on DIs: https://www.behindthemixer.com/passive-and-active-direct-boxes-how-they-should-be-used/. Hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 1, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks, DeepI read somewhere that active DIs are better for acoustic guitars and passive DIs are better for electric guitars. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 1, 2019 Members Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks' date=' DeepI read somewhere that active DIs are better for acoustic guitars and passive DIs are better for electric guitars. Does that make sense?[/quote'] Maybe part way. I've used a passive DI in worship for years with my main acoustic and from what I can tell it works fine. I think it probably has to do with the built in preamp and its various sound shaping options. You'll notice the Baggs Para DI, which a lot of acoustic types like, has a 5 band EQ. Same principle with the Fishman Aura Spectrum DI, which has EQ, compression, modeling, and practically makes espresso, LOL. Electric players are more likely to rely on pedals and the like for sound tweaking and so they wouldn't need the extra gizmos. Makes sense to me, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 1, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 1, 2019 Maybe part way. I've used a passive DI in worship for years with my main acoustic and from what I can tell it works fine. I think it probably has to do with the built in preamp and its various sound shaping options. You'll notice the Baggs Para DI, which a lot of acoustic types like, has a 5 band EQ. Same principle with the Fishman Aura Spectrum DI, which has EQ, compression, modeling, and practically makes espresso, LOL. Electric players are more likely to rely on pedals and the like for sound tweaking and so they wouldn't need the extra gizmos. Makes sense to me, anyway. Thanks again! Actually, what I like about my Red-Eye is that it DOESN'T make espresso. Just an on/off switch and two knobs - great for us tech-stupid players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 1, 2019 Members Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks again! Actually, what I like about my Red-Eye is that it DOESN'T make espresso. Just an on/off switch and two knobs - great for us tech-stupid players. Yeah, I checked out the Red-Eye. Just Gain and Treble (Tone) controls. Simple is good, IMHO. I used to play with a guy who had a Peavey modeling amp. He was forever fiddling with it between songs and it looked about as complex as the Space Shuttle. Some acoustic players like the idea of just buying one preamp and putting passive pickups in multiple guitars so that's another factor. Since I just have the one guitar with a pickup installed, it's not really an issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 2, 2019 Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 I "simplified" by moving to a single complex device that replaces my DI, my bass amp, my guitar amps, my acoustic amp and all of my effects. 😀 [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"products_profiler-head-black_cropped_wh.jpg","data-attachmentid":32430980}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 2, 2019 Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 BTW - this is a very useful thread despite my comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted January 2, 2019 Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 Live I use this on my acoustic guitar even though the pickup has active electronics.[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"AuraSpectDI-large.jpg","data-attachmentid":32431141}[/ATTACH] On my mandolin, I use the M Radius pick up and this.[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"VenueDI-large.jpg?v=a502b5ea9e4cb74b.jpg","data-attachmentid":32431142}[/ATTACH]Both are excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 2, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2019 Mikeo, neither of those is a PASSIVE DI... A passive DI transforms the signal from the pickups to be at a proper level for a mixer board input rather than an amplifier input. This is not about impedance at all, but about matching the signal level from the source [output] to the receptor [input]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 2, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 I "simplified" by moving to a single complex device that replaces my DI, my bass amp, my guitar amps, my acoustic amp and all of my effects. 😀 [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"products_profiler-head-black_cropped_wh.jpg","data-attachmentid":32430980}[/ATTACH] Ow! My poor eyeballs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 2, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 Live I use this on my acoustic guitar even though the pickup has active electronics. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"AuraSpectDI-large.jpg","data-attachmentid":32431141}[/ATTACH] On my mandolin, I use the M Radius pick up and this. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"VenueDI-large.jpg?v=a502b5ea9e4cb74b.jpg","data-attachmentid":32431142}[/ATTACH] Both are excellent. I've tried a Fishman and a BBE and am now happy with the Fire-Eye Red-Eye. It's a LOT easier to use. They dial in the settings for you at the factory so you don't have to twiddle with a lot of controls when you're trying to play. Two knobs, one switch. Just my speed. Never tried a passive DI, though. What can you tell me about those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 2, 2019 Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 Mikeo, neither of those is a PASSIVE DI... A passive DI transforms the signal from the pickups to be at a proper level for a mixer board input rather than an amplifier input. This is not about impedance at all, but about matching the signal level from the source [output] to the receptor [input]. Nor did he say either was. This thread is about DIs, both passive and active, not a specific type. We've already discussed the differences. Delmont, the OP, likes his Fire-Eye Red-Eye, which is active. If the OP can talk about active DIs then so can Mikeo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 2, 2019 Members Share Posted January 2, 2019 Ow! My poor eyeballs! My first thought was: So. Many. Knobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 3, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 3, 2019 The title of the thread....the thrust of the OP...appeared to me, and now, I may be mistaken, but..., "passive DIs" was the topic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 3, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2019 Mikeo' date=' neither of those is a PASSIVE DI... [/quote'] Yup. Like I said. Tell me about passives, Mikeo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 3, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2019 Nor did he say either was. This thread is about DIs . . . . Well, sure, it's about anything you want to talk about! But the thread title (and original post) will tell you how it started. I'm already familiar with active preamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 3, 2019 Members Share Posted January 3, 2019 Ow! My poor eyeballs! It's remarkably well laid out for the amount of stuff that it does. The buttons across the top are arranged left to right the way a signal chain works: Input, Stomp boxes, Amp, EQ, Speaker cab, Stereo post effects, Output. Mostly I don't touch it and just use the pedalboard that comes with it to move between patches or work the looper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 3, 2019 Members Share Posted January 3, 2019 If I just need a passive DI I use it's little brother:[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"22000000Fk8DSyDZLtg5M_600x600@2x.jpg","data-attachmentid":32432393}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 4, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2019 It's remarkably well laid out for the amount of stuff that it does. . . . No doubt in my mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted January 4, 2019 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2019 If I just need a passive DI I use it's little brother . . . . Which exactly gets to my question. Why do you ever need a passive DI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted January 4, 2019 Members Share Posted January 4, 2019 Which exactly gets to my question. Why do you ever need a passive DI? To convert the hi impedance unbalanced output signal you have on a guitar pick up to a low impedance balanced signal that would go into an XLR input on your PA. They are out there for less than 50 bucks. Whirlwind, Switchcraft, LiveWire, Horizons, and others make passive ones. They work. IDI's are nice when you need to do longer runs to the mixer. Plus if you get carried away on stage, you probably will pull the box around, before you tumble over your mixer. Just saying, cause stuff like that has happened, but not to me of course. Many PA's have both 1/4" and XLR, but sometimes on a stage, where you get a sound guy, ( some stages are big enough you'll have a sound guy that just works the monitors) they will have DI boxes to plug into. That DI could be running into a snake that runs into the main house mixer some 50 feet away, and you don't want your signal to drop to almost nothing. This is different, but you'll get the idea where DI's and Splitters come in handy. Sometimes sound guys/gals will use a mic splitter so they can send the signal from the mic ( say a mic-ed guitar amp on stage. ) and control the house speakers, but also send you a signal into the house monitors. That way when you start complaining about how you can't hear your killer solo, the sound person can turn up the monitor for you, and keep the house system right where it should be. Some active DI's don't need a battery but will run Phantom Power from your mixer. All DI's and Splitters have there place and function. It all depends on the size of your venue and setup. If you're playing a small restaurant or coffee house, with a small Bose L1, JBL one, or Fishman Solo amp, you probably don't need a DI, but I use the Fishman Spectra, as it has some modeling sounds that makes it sound like your acoustic is mic-ed up. The anti feedback works great too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 4, 2019 Members Share Posted January 4, 2019 Good summary Mikeo. It used to be standard to run a passive bass guitar into a DI, to make the long run to the mixer and not degrade the signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 4, 2019 Members Share Posted January 4, 2019 Well, sure, it's about anything you want to talk about! But the thread title (and original post) will tell you how it started. I'm already familiar with active preamps. You asked about passive DIs vs. active DIs. A proper comparison involves a discussion of both. Presumably you're interested in knowing what others use and why, which in Mikeo's case are active models. Of course, I could be wrong and you really don't care. Your original question is long since answered so any discussion at this point is meandering anyway. Speaking of OT, I have a thread in DIY about mic booms that somehow became about cable ties and routing. Phil was part of that discussion and nobody got smacked down for going OT. At least people in this one are still talking about something resembling the original topic. Sometimes it's just the way things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 There's some contradictory (and misleading) replies in this thread, so here folks... read this: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/prepare-di ...and this: http://www.radialeng.com/di-questions Let me know if you have any questions once you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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