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What are the effects of various upgrades?


Delmont

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I have a '76 Guild D-35 spruce and mahogany dreadnought. I love it, but it's always nice to be able to tweak for a better sound.

 

One upgrade I've already done is replace the plastic bridge pins with bone. They look nice and are a lot more rugged than the plastic, but I didn't hear a change in the guitar's sound.

 

I talked with my guit whisperer about scalloping the braces, but he said it would mostly just add bottom, and the guitar has plenty of bottom already.

 

So now I'm wondering:

 

- What effect, if any, would a bone saddle have on the guitar's tone?

- A bone nut?

- open-back tuners?

 

Thanks!

 

 

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Every component in a guitar has an affect on the tone. Some have more of an effect than others. Here are my humble opinions, others will have dramatically different ones.

 

The largest effect on the sound of a guitar is its air volume - how big it is and how big the sound hole is. There are some fundimental physics behind that - you change change it.

 

The next biggest effect is the stiffness of the sound board. That is a function of the material and the way it is braced. Once a guitar is built your option is to remove wood from certain braces to try to make that portion of the top more active. Its far more of a crap shoot than doing it while the guitar is being built but the advantage is that you can scallop a bit, string it up, see if its going the way you want, do some more. When you've gone too far......

 

I have two anecdotes here. I have a 1974 D-18 from Martin's "over built" era. I had the heavy bridgeplate replaced with a lighter one and had some sound hole scalloping done by a guy who specializes in this. My subjective opinion is that it improved the guitar dramatically - it went from being a nice sounding dread to, and this is an over used term, a "cannon". It was passed around at a bluegrass jam and everyone though it held up against a 1937 D-18 (the grail). My wife's comment when I first got it back was "you are playing louder"

 

Second anecdote - last winter I built a cedar topped guitar and when I strung it up frankly I was disappointed. The reputation for cedar is that it does not "open up" with age so I went thru the sound hole and thinned some braces. It might of made a difference, frankly I can't tell. However 9 months later that guitar is really coming into its own - did the cedar actually open up or was it something I did.

 

Last comment about modifying braces - you might be risking damage to the guitar, you might be reducing its resale value.

 

As far as other components - bridge pins might make a difference as far as better (or worse) fit and adding or removing mass from the bridge. When I did the great Pin Test a million years ago most people thought they could hear brass pins but there was little consensus about other materials. I use bone or plastic in all my guitars, I make sure they are the proper size and fit well, I usually slot and ramp the bridge. I have never used ivory. Remember that Martin puts plastic pins in all of their guitars.

 

Saddle and nut. I use bone in everything I make because its cheap, easy to work, and seems to work fine. I replaced a "tusq" saddle (its an artificial material that is supposed to be like ivory) in an old Taylor with bone - could tell no difference. At the nut end, remember that as soon as you fret a string the nut is no longer in the picture. My believe is that the fit and construction of both the nut and saddle are probably more important than the material - obviously opinions differ.

 

Tuners - sure, you got to have them. The only affect I can see that tuners have on the sound of a guitar might be in their stability when bringing the string to pitch and whether you believe adding or removing mass from the head of a guitar has some affect on tone, sustain or anything else. You can test your theory by attaching a clamp to the head - heck, even clamping your tuner must have an affect, right? Or not.

 

I have convinced myself that string composition has an affect on tone. Thats an easy test to make so I won't tell you what I think I hear. I think that pick, nails, hand position on the guitar, technique, player and the phase of the moon all have an affect too.

 

Last comment - if you are experimenting with these things do them one at a time. And post your results and conclusions.

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Won't be doing anything with the braces. As I said, the luthier I go to said it wouldn't improve the sound.

 

Sounds like you like bone nuts and saddles but aren't especially excited about open-back tuners. They weigh less, of course, but the weight of the guitar has never bothered me. Still thinking about it.

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The right strings (alloy) will be the off-the-shelf first choice attempt to experiment with the sound of your guitar. If strings alone aren't getting it for you are you are willing to spend the time (or money) on alterations, then have a nut, and/or saddle, pins, rework, etc.

 

We all bought guitars at a time when our ears were X-capable of cobbling together an opinion of what good sound is. Then along came a time when something changed our opinions to seek X-Plus. This is when discussions questioned every constituent part, process, finish, environmental conditions and, seemingly, time of the day and if the MIL was within a 5 mile radius of our guitars relative to tonal mods.

 

Then, of course, there's always selling the guitar and buying another that sounds better.

 

I just plug in to mod the sound. I can always unplug.

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Bridge pins can, but will not necessarily affect the tone and sustain of your guitar.

 

I have long been a fan of brass bridge pins and have used them is various guitars over the years. It is my belief that it is not the mass they add to the bridge but rather the way the brass transmits the vibrations of the string to the bridge plate in an enhanced way. Following this line of thinking, if your bridge pin holes are slotted to increase the break angel over the saddle, then the ball of the string will not be touching the brass bridge pin and if there is any enhancement at all, it should be significant less. I have used a variety of brass pins and they are generally not the most attractive things. But, I recently bought some on e*ay that have a black coating on them and they look like regular pins. I have these on my Alvarez (my current beater) and they definitely enhanced the tone and sustain. I tried them on my Yamaha FG-340II and they made the tone more treble but I liked it better the way it had been and went back to the plastic pins. Likewise, I tried them on my Martin 00015M and they did increase the sustain and enhanced the treble but one of the charms of this guitar is its deep woody tone and I went back tot he ebony bridge pins it came with.

 

So, the point is, bridge pins can affect the tone and sustain but the only way to find out if they do it to your guitar and if you like the end result is to try them out.

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A bone or TUSQ saddle is a worthwhile investment. A new nut might make an audible improvement or it might not. A good setup is always worthwhile but I'm going to assume you've done that. I'd leave the braces alone. Different tuners might have an effect based on increasing/reducing headstock mass and various resonances/sustain but you couldn't prove it by me. As Idunno mentioned, new strings are an inexpensive change. You might try the Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze. I'm on my second set on my main acoustic and I like them fine so far.

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In my suspect opinion, bone nut and saddle are a must. Strings are right up there for mod of sound. The strings are the root of whatever sound eventually hits our ears. Which strings? Heck if I know.... maybe make a recording sample with different brands a day or so after changing.... brass pins: gave me idea (oh oh). Maybe us 3 on bottom 3 if weak there, or top three if weak there, std pins for other 3.

Okay, I'm not much of a finger picker. Picks make a huge difference on what sort of noise comes out of my boxes.

Don't recall anyone mentioning mods done on player. How tight do you hug your guitar? That might suck up vibrations. What shirt do you wear? That arm is laying across the body. Flannel or wool really dampen. I prefer rayon Hawaiian shirts... why I moved to Thailand (new lie I just thought up)..

Most noticeable mod I've tried is letting some more talented player play my guitars, also allows me to step back from the source and hear it as others would.

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A bone or TUSQ saddle is a worthwhile investment. A new nut might make an audible improvement or it might not. A good setup is always worthwhile but I'm going to assume you've done that. I'd leave the braces alone. Different tuners might have an effect based on increasing/reducing headstock mass and various resonances/sustain but you couldn't prove it by me. As Idunno mentioned' date=' new strings are an inexpensive change. You might try the Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze. I'm on my second set on my main acoustic and I like them fine so far.[/quote']

Yup, I'm happy with the setup and happy with the guitar. Just thinking about what upgrades might add entertainment value.

 

If I swap tuners, it'll be to Grover open-backs.

 

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Yup, I'm happy with the setup and happy with the guitar. Just thinking about what upgrades might add entertainment value.

 

If I swap tuners, it'll be to Grover open-backs.

"Entertainment value"? Why didn't you say so? Back in the mid 70's before he made it big, Jimmy Buffett played a concert in the Student Union of what is now McKendree University (Go Bearcats!) He played a Martin dread of some description that had a naked woman painted on the top. You might want to find a local starving artist to spiff up your Guild. ;)

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In the early years of questioning sound physics I tinkered with strings, pins and set-up. Those were the only things. Varying the strings and set-up were the only changes that imparted qualitative sound differences. Pins only proved to me that I was as prone to gullibility as the next guitar player with a curiosity.

 

Strings, to my ear on a steel string, must be changed 3 weeks in. As long as I've been playing I hear the trebles diminishing in about that span of time so off they come. I don't care what others opine about steel string longevity, stress on a thin strand of music wire diminishes its flexibility and frequency response quickly. Lose the trebles, lose the mix. Coatings on strings cannot delay the onset of metallurgical stress. No coating will prevent a string from stretching under tension or diminish the stress fatigue it experiences. Certain alloys will last slightly longer but their tone may not be acceptable even when new.

 

The set-up that produces better volume and projection moves the strings away from the board. That alone is a compromise few will accept, myself included. In the first position it's acceptable but moving up the neck brings progressively worse playability.

 

Keeping the strings new is my only answer to keeping a guitar at its sonic best. After that humidity (RH) in the 42-47% range seems to be where spruce/EIR and cedar/EIR (per my experience) give up their best frequency responses. If it's important enough, you'll humidify and dehumidify as necessary. I did for a while and then decided I could live with the dampened sound of 50% RH.

 

All other changes I read about brought, on averages, unremarkable reviews. The saddle material was the focus for a time and then died the death of a top 100 song. Was bone the Valhalla of materials or more like eye of newt in a witch's brew? I wasn't convinced bone, a material known to be less dense than man-made polymers, could transmit frequency to the soundboard better. If I was to attempt to experiment with the saddle it would be with a solid metal material similar in composition to the strings themselves to ensure like-material frequency-carrying properties. Seems odd to not start there. But, I haven't and probably won't bother. I did check and find a source of material (McMaster-Carr) so if ever I do get the hair...I'll probably plug in and rock the thought away.

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. . . . . Strings, to my ear on a steel string, must be changed 3 weeks in. As long as I've been playing I hear the trebles diminishing in about that span of time so off they come. . . . .

 

. . . . . Was bone the Valhalla of materials or more like eye of newt in a witch's brew? . . . .

 

 

Yes, Joe, I agree with you about frequent strings changes. I change strings on my two most-played steel string guitars about every 4 weeks. I generally use quite cheap strings - "Olympia" brand, MIK - which to my old ears sound as good as strings costing twice as much or more.

 

Bone was used for saddles and nuts in guitars way back when because plastic hadn't been invented.

 

 

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Strings, to my ear on a steel string, must be changed 3 weeks in. As long as I've been playing I hear the trebles diminishing in about that span of time so off they come..

Wow ,i`ll change mine when one finaly breaks and not untill, i don`t like the zzzzzzing of new strings ,especially on acoustics,it makes me cringe when i see people on youtube strumming an acoustic with a brand new set on, zzingg a sspring aahh lllaa ,it sounds too distracting all i can think about is the rattle zing . even my solid electrics i never chaged the strings ,only untill i had a break and they would always keep their tuning fine ,and the tone stayed nice and bright but the solid electrics were going through a marshall amp ,I remember when i used to play through a Laney amp and the treble response was not as prominent or biting as the marshall and so new srtings did sound better with that Laney amp.

 

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I change uncoated DR Veritas after about 15 hours of playing. Elixirs about 30. Once the beautiful overtones and brightness are gone I lose interest and change them.

Aw, fifteen hours is just the break-in period! It takes that long to get past the new-string hump.

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