Members Freeman Keller Posted August 12, 2018 Members Share Posted August 12, 2018 Right after returning the hundred year old banjo I got a call to look at an old parlor guitar. The is branded as a "Benary", built under a patent issued to Tilton in 1886. Spruce (probably adi) over beautiful Brazilian rosewood, but with some interesting twists. The guitar has a plastic tailpiece with the patent date on it and what I originally thought was a neck stick running just under the top, with another plastic disc, this one with the builders logo [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tIMG_4577-1.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t134.2 KB ID:\t32295589","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32295589","data-size":"full","title":"IMG_4577-1.jpg"}[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tIMG_4576-1.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t191.1 KB ID:\t32295590","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32295590","data-size":"full","title":"IMG_4576-1.jpg"}[/ATTACH] The guitar was in the original coffin style case [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tIMG_4579-1.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t185.0 KB ID:\t32295591","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32295591","data-size":"full","title":"IMG_4579-1.jpg"}[/ATTACH] It had a few cracks which the owner wanted me to fix, and when I got it it had nylon strings on it. The action was reasonable in the first positions but was pretty high up the neck. We discussed how far to go with the repairs, decided to just clean it up, do a little very light fretwork, clean the metal and plastic parts (the tuners are probably original and work fine) and not to reset the neck at this time. The interesting thing is the piece of wood down the center [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tIMG_4573-1.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t157.0 KB ID:\t32295592","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32295592","data-size":"full","title":"IMG_4573-1.jpg"}[/ATTACH] It runs from the neck block to the tail block and is let into both,. In a discussion at one of the lutherie forums someone had a picture of a similar guitar with the back off [img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1303.photobucket.com\/albums\/ag159\/howardguitars\/IMG_7001_zps6akgormy.jpg"}[/img2] There are some very interesting things going on here. First, this is a ladder braced guitar with a tailpiece. It was produced at that period of time when steel strings were just starting to be used. We speculate that the idea is to brace the tail block against the head to counter the string tension pulling on the tailpiece. The "brace" sits on the two ladder braces on the lower bout but not the wide flat one which is right under the bridge. Anyway, I cleaned out the dust bunnies and other odds and end, fixed and cleated the cracks with HHG, did the other minor work and put it back together. When I cleaned it out there was a lady bug inside which had departed this earth a long time ago - I figured she was part of the mojo and put her back inside [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tIMG_4583-1.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t202.6 KB ID:\t32295593","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32295593","data-size":"full","title":"IMG_4583-1.jpg"}[/ATTACH] We've got classical strings on it now and it sounds great but I think it could handle silk and steel with no problems. Sat down and played the little jewel - seemed like the appropriate song was Ashokan Farewell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nabisco Posted August 12, 2018 Members Share Posted August 12, 2018 Very interesting. Any idea what is the purpose of the plastic disc in the sound hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 12, 2018 Members Share Posted August 12, 2018 Cool old guitar with some interesting construction. The bit about the lady bug made me smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 13, 2018 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 One possibility is that its simply a logo mounted where it could be seen (the brace obscures anything that would have been placed inside like a normal label. However at the turn of the 19th century there were several weird things done at the sound hole of guitars and mandolins to "enhance" their sound - the most famous is the "virzi tone producer" that appeared on some Gibson mandolins. Some Sel-Mac style gypsy guitars also had gizmos in their sound holes. I suggested to the owner that he try to find a copy of the original patent and see exactly what Tilton was trying to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 13, 2018 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 There is a bit of a tradition of putting rattlesnake rattles inside mandolins - I figure if I ever find a skin I'll do it to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nabisco Posted August 13, 2018 Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 Thank you, Freeman, for your response. I wonder what impact that little disc would actually have on tone and/or volume? Oh well, guess I'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 13, 2018 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 The virzi device was designed to vibrate in sympathy with the top and to produce some overtones and partials http://siminoff.net/virzi-tone-background/ I can't see where this was designed to vibrate at all - it is rigidly screwed to the brace and while the outsides are floating it doesn't look like it was intended to produce or amplify sound. It is possible that it is supposed to partially close the sound hole - to make its area smaller - which will change the resonant frequency of the box. However, again, thats kind of a weird way to do it. On the other hand, it seems like a lot of work to go thru to put your brand name in the middle of the soundhole. Remember, this is roughly 1900, it would involve making a plastic casting and the extra work of mounting it. I am convinced that the primary purpose of the longitudinal piece of wood is to be a brace, not to hold this disc. As you say, we'll probably never know but I plan to pursue a little research on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Maybe the plastic serves the dual purpose of disguising / hiding the structural brace as well as promoting the brand name? If it's being used to change the area of the soundhole, it would seem a smaller soundhole to begin with would be the easier and cheaper route - I doubt it has any intentional acoustical function. Maybe as a form of beam blocker or diffuser? Neither of which make much sense IMO, but neither does the idea of making the soundhole smaller and changing the Helmholtz resonation frequency with a piece of plastic. Either way, a very interesting instrument to be sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 13, 2018 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 I'm not sure they were trying to hide the brace. It is made out of spruce, but has a thin rosewood veneer glued on the show face and it has been varnished so they were definitely trying to make it look better. It would be interesting to see what the patents said but I'm not going to pay for a patent search just out of curiosity. The little bit I have read about the Tilton "improvement" talks about his bridge design - the strings pass thru a set of holes on the back half of the bridge and run to the tail piece. There is very little break angle after the saddle, which is a piece of fret wire. This guitar had a small piece of felt on the saddle, I don't know why but I put it back. Here is a pic of the bridge/saddle/tailpiece. [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger versionName:\tIMG_4584-1.jpgViews:\t1Size:\t174.4 KBID:\t32296637","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32296637","data-size":"full","title":"IMG_4584-1.jpg"}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted August 13, 2018 Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 That is indeed special, Freeman. Unique! On the topic of odd tailpieces---I had a 1929 Gibson L4 with a wang bar! It was a funky brass-plated stamped steel sideways tremolo that looked like original equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted August 14, 2018 Members Share Posted August 14, 2018 That tailpiece of plastic... I wonder if putting silk/steel on would be too much tension and snap that? It is rather old... maybe they made better plastic back then? I wonder how much it might cost to do a 3D scan so replacement could be made on 3D printer if if did break. Very cool guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Is there a patent number visible anywhere on the guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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