Tension questions.

[EdBega]

What would the tension be using light strings and also the tension using medium string?

 

And the tension using medium strings but down tuning a whole step?

 

Cheers!

[Phil O'Keefe]

What is the scale length of the guitar?

 

[Freeman Keller]

Ed, this is quick and easy, I keep it book marked.

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theunofficialmartinguitarforum/string-tension-t5339.html#.VpFU2aNIi1s

 

The chart is based on a 25.5 inch scale (Fender), part way down are the multipliers for other scales (most acoustics are either 24.9, Martin's "short" scale or 25.4 "long". Different strings may have very slight differences and some manufacturers change gauges in their packages (DR is notorious for this). However in most cases "lights" are 0.012 to 0.053 or 54, "mediums" are 0,.013 to 0.056.

 

There are a couple of very interesting observations when looking at this chart. Lights at concert pitch are 163 pounds, mediums tuned down one semi tone are 168 pounds, "heavies" tuned down two semitones are 170 - all very close to the same tension. Therefore if your guitar is happy with lights at E and you want the same tension at D you need to bump the gauges up.

 

The tensions for altered tunings are also interesting - again, if your guitar is happy with lights at standard E you probably want to bump up to mediums for an open tuning like D or G or DADGAD. That can be extrapolated to show why its probably a bad idea to tune an acoustic up to open E or A.

 

The twelve string tensions are also interesting - note that most 12 strings when strung and tuned reasonably are in the 200 to 250 pound range - that means 150 percent the tension of a 6 string, not double.

 

Last, and far from least, here is the way you can calculate the tension for any set of strings at any tuning on any scale guitar.

 

http://www.daddario.com/upload/tension_chart_13934.pdf

[EdBega]

Perfect thanks Freeman... i'm wanting to get a little more bass out of my RK 000 and my thinking is by going to the medium strings and down tuning a step to not over stress the top might be the answer. I have been using the Elixir hd lights you recommended a while back but thinking I'll give the mediums a try... maybe it's a wash with downtuning though...

[Freeman Keller]

I think you would be happy with mediums - if you tune down two steps they will be slightly less tension than the HD lights. You can always try with a cheaper non coated set and replace them when they wear out - as much as I like Elixers I'm getting put off by their price.

[EdBega]

They are pricey but they last crazy long and with my ph (I guess) other strings go as fast as a week.. so they are cheaper for me long run. The other thing I picked them out for their sound from your string test thread way back when so win win.. have tried others but always come back to them...as usual great advice

[Grant Harding]

Do you use a flat pick much? A thicker (>1mm) one takes a lot of treble off the top and lets you drive the bass strings harder.

[DeepEnd]

Perfect thanks Freeman... i'm wanting to get a little more bass out of my RK 000 and my thinking is by going to the medium strings and down tuning a step to not over stress the top might be the answer. I have been using the Elixir hd lights you recommended a while back but thinking I'll give the mediums a try... maybe it's a wash with downtuning though...

You can try mixed gauges too. D'Addario makes a light top/medium bottom .012-.056 set (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EJ19--daddario-ej19-phosphor-bronze-bluegrass-light-top-medium-bottom-acoustic-strings) that would give you some extra oomph in the bass without tuning down. They're cheaper than Elixirs and you can get an idea whether it will work for you. From there you can assemble your own set.

[EdBega]

Have probably tried more picks than strings and my preference is Dunlop max grip .73. Thicker than that sounds too metallic to me but also the way it feels striking the strings is a factor its the Goldilocks for me. Have tried D'Addario strings which were too bright as I remember. I do like a few Martin strings but they were the shortest life of any of the strings I tried over the years and the extended life Martin's didn't sound great to me.

 

I do like the idea of less tension on the guitar with the medium strings tuned down a full step... couldnt find the Elixir mediums here in phoenix so have them ordered... will see

[garthman]

. . . . I do like the idea of less tension on the guitar with the medium strings tuned down a full step... couldnt find the Elixir mediums here in phoenix so have them ordered... will see

 

I keep one of my acoustics permanently tuned down two semitones (standard D - DGCFAD) and I use 12 to 53 gauge.

[EdBega]

I've done that but with the 000 body it sounds even more lackluster but playing less these days I worry about the top warping sitting at standard tuning so Im excited about trying the mediums strings to maybe give it a little more punch and downtuned two semitones its still less than lights at standard/440..

 

I see zager is advertising here now. lol

[garthman]

I've done that but with the 000 body it sounds even more lackluster but playing less these days I worry about the top warping sitting at standard tuning so Im excited about trying the mediums strings to maybe give it a little more punch and downtuned two semitones its still less than lights at standard/440..

 

Yes. I use 12's on my RK 000 but keep it in standard E. I've tried a couple of different gauges and tunings but 12's in standard E seem to suit it best. The guitar I keep in standard D with 12's is a dreadnought that to my ears sounds best with 10's or 11's in standard E

 

I

see zager is advertising here now. lol

 

Yeah, well, they probably need the money. Not much goes on here any more.

[EdBega]

I actually first came to Harmony central searching for info on Zager guitars, at that time the zager thread was going full steam and for some reason I didn't end up getting one..

[FretFiend.]

Hmm. I had to turn off my Ad Blocker to see the Zager ad.

 

Who'd have ever thought... Zager actually paying to advertise here.

[DeepEnd]

You could also leave .012's on it and tune it in drop D.

[EdBega]

First impression they sound pretty good. They have a bit more sustain, a bit more depth to them I don't think the lights had also volume seems louder too so calling it a win not sure if I can hear more bass yet though.

[EdBega]

Think I'm onto something here guys. The strings I took off were pretty dead but it doesnt sound like anything is missing with the medium strings now and I've never experienced that before with this guitar. Sounds in the range of my Yamaha fg700s (I gave away) as I recall so I'm not mad about that at all...

[Freeman Keller]

Glad they are working. Clarify for me please, you went with Elixer mediums tuned down two semi tones? Some people complain of D tuning being "muddy" or "flabby" - what do you think? Are you using a capo to get back to E or transposing any songs to get in a higher key?

 

FWIW I routinely tune my 12 strings to D but normally don't with the sixers. I do used open and altered tunings but ordinarily don't just leave the guitar down. I almost always use 12's or the HD's, 13's on the resonators.

[EdBega]

I am using the Elixir phosphor bronze nanoweb mediums 13-56 and I am tuned down two semi tones and capo 2 so cowboy chords and major and minor 7 chords I like. I don't hear what I would call muddy which is what I would associate with a cedar top being strummed very fast if that makes sense but it does have longer sustain which was also noticeable with a cedar top and what I believed to cause the muddy sound when played fast. I havent played anything fast on it so that is a possibility.

 

edit: I do hear some of that muddyness when strumming fast now so way to rain on my parade... just kidding... the strings do lend theirselves well to my less is more style of strumming

[DeepEnd]

I am using the Elixir phosphor bronze nanoweb mediums 13-56 and I am tuned down two semi tones and capo 2 so cowboy chords and major and minor 7 chords I like. . . .

In that case you're not really gaining anything. Tuning down should give you more bass, a heavier gauge should give you more volume overall, but if you capo up you're back to square one. That's why I recommended light top/heavy bottom strings. D'Addario makes them for acoustic but you said you don't like D'Addario so you'd need to make a custom set. Drop D should give you a bit more bass as well.

[EdBega]

In that case you're not really gaining anything. Tuning down should give you more bass, a heavier gauge should give you more volume overall, but if you capo up you're back to square one. That's why I recommended light top/heavy bottom strings. D'Addario makes them for acoustic but you said you don't like D'Addario so you'd need to make a custom set. Drop D should give you a bit more bass as well.

I was originally keeping it tuned down a full step with the light strings so I am actually at a higher tension than when I started but still less than standard tuning with the lights so more or less what I am looking for tension wise and sounds pretty good have to see how it sounds after a bit though..

[DeepEnd]

I was originally keeping it tuned down a full step with the light strings so I am actually at a higher tension than when I started but still less than standard tuning with the lights so more or less what I am looking for tension wise and sounds pretty good have to see how it sounds after a bit though..

Ah. I see. I was under the impression you were tuning it to Standard with light gauge strings.

[EdBega]

Am not playing as much these days so prefer it to not sit under full tension but maybe I shouldnt worry about that as much.

 

With the medium strings I could tune just a half step down and only be about 5lbs over standard tuning with light strings.

[DeepEnd]

That makes sense. I have an old '74 vintage 12-string that has a nicely bellied top from being tuned to standard pitch for 'way to many years. You might want to tune your guitar down another step or more when you're not playing it to promote its longevity.

[EdBega]

I think I'll do that and quit being lazy about tuning it up when I do occasionally play.

 

i dont want to tune it down too far though. I'd worry about the truss rod warping the neck and I'm not wanting to release the truss rod since I do play every once in a while.