Question for acoustic guitar set-up/repair folks....

[Yakburger]

Today I was able to acquire a Taylor 714ce acoustic. I am more an electric guitar kind of guy but I have owned a few acoustic guitars over the years (many many years). The trouibe with this guitar is I think it wasn't stored very well (although always in it's case I am told). It looks and feels very solid and appears well made. The top is cedar instead of spruce I believe. However the action seems very high to me compared to other acoustics I have owned and played. I would take it to a reputable acoustic guitar person if I knew that it can probably be corrected but I thought i'D throw the question out there to the community before searching for a good guy in the Seattle area to look at this guitar. Any input would be appreciated.

 

​On edit: I would have probably passed up on this but it was practically given to me to help out a buddy.

 

YAK

[DeepEnd]

Your first step is going to be making sure the guitar is properly hydrated. Here's a good treatise on the symptoms of a dry guitar: https://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/...aDryGuitar.pdf. It's also possible the guitar could be overly humidifed but IMHO that's unlikely. Once you have established that the guitar is properly humidified, check it over for basic structural issues like a lifting bridge. Check it for high/worn frets. Lay a straightedge along the frets and touch the bridge with it. The edge should just hit the top of the bridge. If it hits significantly lower, you have a bad neck angle. Assuming it's properly humidified and everything is in good shape, measure the relief. Put a capo at the first fret and hold the low E down at the neck/body joint, then measure at the 7th fret. If the relief is more than 0.01" it's probably excessive unless you pick hard. Action should be 3/32" or so at the 12th fret on the bass side and 2/32" or so on the treble side, again unless you pick really hard. Look it over, take some measurements if possible, and post back. Meanwhile, here's a vid that might help:

 

[video=youtube;QyCF5kaUxZ4]

[Freeman Keller]

There are a couple of things that make setting up a Taylor tricky (actually, easy if you know what to do). First, as DE suggests, make sure the guitar is well humidified, Taylors are sensitive to humidity but the usual symptom of a dry guitar is that the top sinks, so the action goes down. Do the trick of laying a straightedge on the frets and see where the end is relative to the top of the bridge - it should just be touching it. If it is significantly lower (towards the top) stop now and take it to an authorized Taylor tech (Dusty Strings, Mike Lull, several others in Seattle but those are some of the best). They will have the proper shims to correct the neck angle (if you are on good terms with your buddy and he was the original purchaser of the guitar take him with you - neck angle adjustments are covered under warranty to the original owner).

 

Relief and the other setup measurements are important (and can be done at home) but make sure that NT neck joint is correct and that is best done by someone trained at the factory.

 

Report back

[Freeman Keller]

Let me add that while I don't usually work on Taylor neck angle issues because I don't have access to the factory shims, I did have one cross my bench with a fairly high action that looked to be a loose neck joint. I tightened the bolts holding the neck on (they hide behind the paper label on the head block, peal it off carefully and reattach with some contact cement). That is all it took to bring the neck angle back to where is should be.

 

The owner ended up taking it to Dusty Strings because it had some other issues that we thought might be covered under warranty but by then the action was back to nice and low.

[DeepEnd]

Let me add that while I don't usually work on Taylor neck angle issues because I don't have access to the factory shims, I did have one cross my bench with a fairly high action that looked to be a loose neck joint. I tightened the bolts holding the neck on (they hide behind the paper label on the head block, peal it off carefully and reattach with some contact cement). That is all it took to bring the neck angle back to where is should be.

 

The owner ended up taking it to Dusty Strings because it had some other issues that we thought might be covered under warranty but by then the action was back to nice and low.

I hadn't thought of a loose neck joint (which I should have) but if that were the case with the OP's guitar and he loosened the strings would the neck wiggle slightly? Seems like it would be a fairly easy way to check.

[Freeman Keller]

I hadn't thought of a loose neck joint (which I should have) but if that were the case with the OP's guitar and he loosened the strings would the neck wiggle slightly? Seems like it would be a fairly easy way to check.

 

 

Yes, the one that was brought to me the guy wasn't concerned about the action (he thought it was supposed to be that way) but the fact that he could see small gaps at the heel and f/b extension - he actually thought the neck was broken in some way. We measured the angle (which was bad), loosened the strings and could wiggle it slightly. I told him that once I removed the label the factory might not honor the warranty (however they did), he said it was worth a try. I had seen this before with two different Seagull guitars as well as several electrics with loose necks - a bolt on is a great idea until the bolts get loose.'

 

As you know, DE, and the owner should, Taylor has a special way to set their neck angles by putting little laser cut shims between the heel and body and under the f/b extension. I actually think they have an app that lets them measure the angle, then calculate which shims it needs. Doing a reset is dead simple if you have the shims (and program)

 

It is, of course, possibly something else but as I've said so many times before, never do a "setup" until the guitar is structurally correct.

[Yakburger]

Thanks for all the great input guys. So, I got the guitar out today and checked it out. The neck relief seemed fine. I didn't have an .009 feeler gage but an .008 fit fine and an .010 was kinda tight. The string relief at the 12th fret was very high. The strings on this guitar are very old and rusty. The neck doesn't seem to be warped. Should I just start with a soundhole humidifier and see if it improves the instrument or should I have a pro look at it. I don't really care about the warranty. I got the guitar for a steal (I believe) under $500 and there are no scratches or dings anywhere. It has a really nice case as well. I have had Mike Lull work on a couple of teles and he does nice work. I even considered buying one of his custom teles until the rodents did big damage to my wife's car. Last thing I need is another tele anyway. Dusty Strings looks like a good place as well. I do most all my adjustment and set up on my teles but acoustics are different. I only own one and it's an old Martin that I simply love. Anyway. again, thanks for the feedback. All very informative stuff. Maybe the neck needs to be set by a pro or they can tell me if it looks like a humidity problem.

[Freeman Keller]

Most of the time humidity problems mean dry guitars and the symptoms include sharp fret ends, kind a a wavy looking finish and the top (which is normally slightly domed) drops in the middle and becomes flat (if you lay a straightedge across behind the bridge there should be an 1/8 or so gap at each side at the edge. If its flat then its dry). They other symptom of a dry guitar is that the action goes down and it gets buzzy. When I see a dry guitar I put a couple of my sponge/baggy humidifiers inside and in the case and put it away for a month.

 

High action often comes from the natural rotation of the neck and body around the heel - with 170 pounds of string tension the guitar is gradually folding in half. Its normal, most guitar 20 or so years old show signs and it one of the reason Bob Taylor invented his neck joints to make it easy to fix. If your 714 is one of the early ones it has a normal bolted neck joint which takes a little more work to fix, later ones have the "NT" neck which, as I said, is set with special shims. As I also said, it might just be that the bolts are loose - very easy for you to fix that.

 

The normal check for neck angle is to place a 24 inch straight edge on the frets between the G and A strings - the end of it should just touch the top; of the bridge. If it is significantly below that (towards the top) then the neck angle is bad. What constitutes "bad"? - when you can not lower the saddle enough to get acceptable action and still have some sticking out of the bridge.

 

Most techs will evaluate a guitar and give you an estimate before starting. Also, if you have never been to Dusty Strings you owe it to yourself to go down to Fremont and check them out. Other good guitar stores in Seattle but that one is special (I'm across the hills in Wenatchee but come over frequently)

[Freeman Keller]

Let me add one more thing. I think 0.010 relief is on the high side - that is my usual limit (however you will see that in a lot of factory specifications as recommended). With good frets you can make it considerably less, which means that playability in the middle frets can be better. If your frets are good you might try lowering it a hair, 0.004 or 0.005 is a reasonable target and that will automatically lower the action. Stop if it starts buzzing and tell us where that occurs.

 

Also, you haven't actually told us what your action is, just that it "seems high", I work a lot better with actual numbers, measure it to the nearest 64th and report back

[DeepEnd]

. . . As you know' date=' DE, and the owner should, Taylor has a special way to set their neck angles by putting little laser cut shims between the heel and body and under the f/b extension. I actually think they have an app that lets them measure the angle, then calculate which shims it needs. Doing a reset is dead simple if you have the shims (and program) . . .[/quote']

The YouTube vid I posted is of a neck reset on a 314CE. Very instructive for the OP. If the guitar has been neglected it's much more likely to be dry than overly humidified so that's why I went in that direction.

[DeepEnd]

Thanks for all the great input guys. So' date=' I got the guitar out today and checked it out. The neck relief seemed fine. I didn't have an .009 feeler gage but an .008 fit fine and an .010 was kinda tight. The string relief at the 12th fret was very high. The strings on this guitar are very old and rusty. The neck doesn't seem to be warped. Should I just start with a soundhole humidifier and see if it improves the instrument or should I have a pro look at it. I don't really care about the warranty. I got the guitar for a steal (I believe) under $500 and there are no scratches or dings anywhere. . . .[/quote']

I suspect you mean action at the 12th fret, not relief. As Freeman said, an actual number rather than "very high" would help. Is it more than 3/32"? More than 1/8"? More than 1/4"?! After you take some measurements, take my advice and loosen the strings and see if the neck wiggles. If it has a bolt-on neck, it may just need to have the bolts tightened. Pretty much any qualified tech can do that. You've already said it needs new strings anyway. A soundhole humidifier is a good investment in any event but you really need to look the guitar over and see what shape it's in. I'm guessing it's probably fairly dried out and you may need to keep it in the case with a couple of damp sponges for a week or so. Finally, $500 for a $3000+ guitar is indeed a steal. We're talking easily in the upper teens in good used condition.