Members Reverend Lotus Posted November 15, 2003 Members Share Posted November 15, 2003 Opinions? Assuming the martin will be a few hundred more even though its not all solid. I'm not sure I'm ready to go to all solid Martin, don't wanna spend that much, and don't wanna have a $1000^ guitar sitting around. How would you compare an all solid wood guitar of a cheaper manufacturer vs. a laminated back/sides Martin? No store in my area has Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmo66 Posted November 15, 2003 Members Share Posted November 15, 2003 I'm sure you will get many different opinions, but there are a couple all solid guitars out there that are probably a better value than a lower-end laminate Martin. I have owned 2 Tacomas now and am hooked. I was able to procur an absolute mint Tacoma DM10 for $540! Solid Spruce top, solid Mahogany back & sides, gloss top, abalone rosette & fret markers with hard shell case. I played it against 3 or 4 Martins under a $1000 and it won me hands down. I wouldn't be happy with less than a Martin D18 after playing several solid wood guitars. There is also Larrivees and possibly a Taylor 214. I personally like a brighter sound than the low end Martins I played can give me. If I had to get a sub $1000 Martin, it would be a D15. I could live with some of the 16 series if it wasn't for the Micarta fret board and bridges. Why use a synthetic other than saving a couple bucks? Anyway, it's a good thing we have a few choices! 'Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carle Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 I have played some laminated guitars that have very good tone. As a matter of fact my cheap Yamaha is laminated and sounds nice. I really think you have to go to a store and play everything new and used that is in your price range. DO NOT BUY WITHOUT PLAYING THE GUITAR FIRST. You will be surprised what you can get for a reasonable price. Some of the lower priced guitars have nice tone and a setup job will make them a good player. Just be careful and look them over real close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franchelB Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 I would take an all-solid-wood guitar over a laminated guitar every time! Brand names be damned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thisllub Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by Carle I have played some laminated guitars that have very good tone. As a matter of fact my cheap Yamaha is laminated and sounds nice. I really think you have to go to a store and play everything new and used that is in your price range. DO NOT BUY WITHOUT PLAYING THE GUITAR FIRST. You will be surprised what you can get for a reasonable price. Some of the lower priced guitars have nice tone and a setup job will make them a good player. Just be careful and look them over real close. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carle Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 To exclude laminated guitars over solid wood would be a mistake. Just because it is solid wood does not mean it is better. You may be surprised at how good some of the laminated woods are. It is the method of construction and the builder that has a lot to do with the tone. Always look for quality in construction AND tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aaaaabb Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 Seagull's are laminated, and look at what they are able to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fstpicker Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 I believe some of the all solid wood Washburns (the ones Made in USA) were made by Tacoma. They sure sound like Tacomas and have great tone IMO. A D-43 is one example of one. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Northern Rocker Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 solid top is good. The things that make a guitar stand out against another guitar has very little to do with solidity of the woods. Rather, the build, bracing, finish etc. I am 90% sure that the solid top Martin, given a few weeks heavy playing, will blossom into a wonderful guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Luv2Play Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 From the "for what it's worth category".....I have a Tacoma DM18 that I bought for $650 with case several years ago.....it sounds awesome. I'm really having a tough time finding something that has a sweeter tone and is more responsive! A friend of mine does have a cedar topped Washburn, not sure which model, it's horrible!!! I've also mentioned before that the only guitar in this price range that equals or betters Tacoma is Larrivee ....IMHO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmo66 Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by Northern Rocker solid top is good. The things that make a guitar stand out against another guitar has very little to do with solidity of the woods. Rather, the build, bracing, finish etc. I am 90% sure that the solid top Martin, given a few weeks heavy playing, will blossom into a wonderful guitar. I agree with that statement. Though I prefer solid woods, Martin knows how to build guitars and laminted sides or even a back is not going to "kill" the sound. Their designs are tried and true. Given the choice dolllar for dollar though, I would consider Tacomas and Larrivees over a laminate. I also like to keep the dollars in the USA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orsino Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by Reverend Lotus I'm not sure I'm ready to go to all solid Martin, don't wanna spend that much, and don't wanna have a $1000^ guitar sitting around. The Martin 15 series, all solid mahogany, can be had for $600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayotik Posted November 16, 2003 Members Share Posted November 16, 2003 First I am sort of new here, "sort of" meaning I was here a year or so ago, then went away etc. anyway here I am. As to Washburn vs. Martin, I have an old Washburn. The serial number begins with 89 and ends with 69 so I don't know which year it was made. I bought it second hand and it is solid top and appears to be solid back, laminated sides, with an ebony fingerboard and bridge which is odd because it is a D-21S. Anyway it was the best sounding guitar in the store, and it has a magnificent bass. I liked it better than the lower level martins regardless of materials. I have had a lot of guitars in a few years but won't give up my Washburn and it is the only second hand one I bought. It was made in USA and I say keep our money here. However, Martin backpackers are awful, I think. I had one, and it was made in Mexico, if you look carefully, and the best travel guitar I have is a Lotus Amigo mandolin-shaped guitar, which is cheap, like 100 $ but has a solid top. for that price it doesn't last forever but is easy to repace. WAY better than the backpacker. Sorry, the point is, US made Washburns are good guitars. If I got another guitar tho it would be the Martin all solid mahogany for around $600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members valleyguy Posted November 17, 2003 Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 My vote goes with: You gotta play a guitar to see how they sound, everyone has different tastes, and each guitar is different. That said, I have not played a Martin below a D-18 that I thought was worth owning. For that kind of money Asian manufacturers are building some excellent sounding guitars, for a lot less money. After much searching, I bought a used Guild. Used guitars, I think, are an excellent way to get a broken in sound for less money, as long as you're not too concerned about dings, etc. I have played some great sounding and not-so great sounding Washburns. Played a Koa D-4 that had an incredible sound. Once my kids are out of college, I'm saving for a Martin D-28 or D-35. My holy grail of guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted November 17, 2003 Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 The mission is to find the best sounding guitar for the least amount of money. Play a bunch of guitars and look at the pricetags to make this happen. No other ways work because guitars vary like crazy and don't care what the tag on them says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nutsack Posted November 17, 2003 Members Share Posted November 17, 2003 Set a price limit and just go out and play everything you can find under that price. Take your time and don't get hung up on names. I agree, a solid top is best. There are lots of great sounding guitars with laminated sides/backs. Check out the Ibanez Artwood guitars. Really nice tone for the money (around $500 I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members reggieholdswort Posted November 18, 2003 Members Share Posted November 18, 2003 Tanglewood 45DLX - All solid - Spruce top - mahogany b/s. I went out with the intention of buying a Takamine or Epiphone J200. I had a budget and played as many as I could around this range (I also had a bash on the Gibsons (!) J200, Hummingbird etc) - out of my price range though ..... anyway I picked up the Tanglewood and fell in love... hadn't considered them at all. Genuine grover tuners, fishman pre-amp - great sound, nice and bright - a la Taylor. Name is NOT everything with guitars. Reg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Will Posted November 18, 2003 Members Share Posted November 18, 2003 Washburns and Martins are voiced differently. Find the one with your voice--whether Washburn, Martin, Tacoma, Seagull, etc.. Buy it. That said, I'm convinced that, in an acoustic guitar, a solid top always sounds better than a laminate. (Your mileage may vary. I wouldn't buy a Rainsong because the tones they produce aren't what I want in a guitar. They are, however, really interesting tones. If that was what I was looking for, I'd buy it.) I'm not yet convinced that the same is true about solid backs and sides. If the back is left free to resonate fully, then I would agree that a solid back would be important. Since most of us hold the guitar with the back pressed against our bodies when we play, it doesn't have the opportunity to resonate properly. I suggest that this so significantly eliminates the advantages a solid back has over a laminated one that it is not decisive. If you're going to use a Gracie stand or something like that to get the instrument away from your body so that the whole thing can resonate, then you'll notice a difference. For 99.99% of us, I think solid backs are just a traditional construction technique that has become a marketing issue more than a tonal one. As far as the sides go, while I agree that they play a role in the tonal palette of the instrument, I think it is a neglible one at best. I've not heard, read, or played anything that gives me any reason to uncritically affirm that solid sides are better than laminates. In fact, I tend to think that there are distinct advantages to laminate sides (strength, ease of manufacture, stability) that may make them superior to solid wood, Yeah, I know. I'm a heretic. The Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted November 20, 2003 Members Share Posted November 20, 2003 No I agree a lot with what you say. The back and sides gets way too much credit compared to more important factors like the top, body size, scale length, bridge shape,bracing...etc. I build guitars and really you don't want the sides to vibrate at all because your arm is pressed against the side as you reach over to play. If it vibrated there you'd have a sink where vibration energy is dampened. If your big stomach (yes, YOU ) is pressing on the back it can also act as a sink for vibrational energy. I design my guitars with the top being the biggest factor and the back maybe adding a little color (acting as a "sympathetic resonator") Don't let sales people selling wood upgrades make you think that back and side woods make a lot of difference in tone. It is the most expensive lumber in the guitar, but that doesn't mean it's the biggest factor in producing tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayotik Posted November 20, 2003 Members Share Posted November 20, 2003 Don't let sales people selling wood upgrades make you think that back and side woods make a lot of difference in tone. It is the most expensive lumber in the guitar, but that doesn't mean it's the biggest factor in producing tone. I have a question---why does a guitar with maple back and sides, even laminated, sound different from one with rosewood or mahogany? My maple (laminated) backed guitar does not have a similar tone to the others. Is it the wood, or just the difference between more and less pourous materials? I guess the fiberglass backed guitars sound great and they aren't even wood, which does support your point.. How many people could tell one material from another by ear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reverend Lotus Posted November 22, 2003 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2003 I'm very interested by what you said preacher will. That does make sense. But also, probably most solid wood guitars will have the better bracking, wood. etc, right? that's why i was thinking of the martin, if the only thing was laminated back and sides...... but again, i'm looking for $400 -$700 bcuz i don't want to have to totally baby a guitar, also i'm the basement so that is a factor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmo66 Posted November 22, 2003 Members Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by Preacher Will Washburns and Martins are voiced differently. Find the one with your voice--whether Washburn, Martin, Tacoma, Seagull, etc.. Buy it. That said, I'm convinced that, in an acoustic guitar, a solid top always sounds better than a laminate. (Your mileage may vary. I wouldn't buy a Rainsong because the tones they produce aren't what I want in a guitar. They are, however, really interesting tones. If that was what I was looking for, I'd buy it.) I'm not yet convinced that the same is true about solid backs and sides.If the back is left free to resonate fully, then I would agree that a solid back would be important. Since most of us hold the guitar with the back pressed against our bodies when we play, it doesn't have the opportunity to resonate properly. I suggest that this so significantly eliminates the advantages a solid back has over a laminated one that it is not decisive. If you're going to use a Gracie stand or something like that to get the instrument away from your body so that the whole thing can resonate, then you'll notice a difference. For 99.99% of us, I think solid backs are just a traditional construction technique that has become a marketing issue more than a tonal one. As far as the sides go, while I agree that they play a role in the tonal palette of the instrument, I think it is a neglible one at best. I've not heard, read, or played anything that gives me any reason to uncritically affirm that solid sides are better than laminates. In fact, I tend to think that there are distinct advantages to laminate sides (strength, ease of manufacture, stability) that may make them superior to solid wood,Yeah, I know. I'm a heretic.The Preacher No, you are not a heretic at all. I have a friend who builds super-high quality guitars Jim Worland and even though I don't believe he has ever built a laminate side guitar, he like many other Luthiers know that it actually makes a guitar structurally superior. It's like a drum with the soundboard being tightly drawn to the sides. There is a long time maker feautured in this month's Acoustic Guitar Mag (Noble) who builds extraordinary laminate side guitars. Folks like most of us in the acoustic world are purists who are also fond of the wood itself. Just like fine furniture, you might not want a beautiful Mahogany table top with plastic legs. Structurally and functionally, it may be just as good or maybe even better, but that's not the point. Thank goodness we have several choices eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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