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Doing my own set up - 1st time!!


rickkumar

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I'm going to attempt my own set up for the 1st time. I am going to lower my tuning to B Standard. I know that I will need to up my string thickness to at least 12-60 I would imagine, which means that I will more then likely have to file the nut to widen it, my question is if I do that, can i ever go back to thinner strings, or would the wider nut grooves cause tuning problems? If I cant, how easy is it to replace a nut if I want to go back? Any input is appreciated, thanks. I have a Schecter C-1 Hellraiser if that makes a difference.

 

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Hi Rick, welcome to HCEG. There are three parts to your question, lets take them one at a time.

 

First, by "B Standard" I assume you mean standard tuning but down five semi tones (from bottom to top B E A D F# B). That is getting close to baritone tuning (many baris are tuned to A or Bb), remember that most baritone guitars have longer scales to help control the tension - you may want to consider a conversion neck. Its not uncommon to see baritones with 27 to 28-1/2 inch scale.

 

You can make it work with your standard neck but you are absolutely correct that you will need to radically change your string gauges. Your goal will be to select strings that give you approximately the same tension as each string you are currently using. If you are using 9 to 42 at standard tuning you will have about 85 pounds of total tension, if you play 10 to 46 you'll have about 100 pounds. A set of 12 to 60 (for example D'Addario EXL148) will have right a 100 when tuned down four semi tones ("C standard") so they are probably reasonable for B. Before you commit it would probably be best to run the tension calculator for your exact scale and make sure you'll be happy with the tension.

 

Before jumping into the setup I always do two things - I make sure the guitar is structurally sound (neck and bridge are tight, neck angle is good) and I make sure the frets are perfect. If they aren't the setup will be compromised so fix them now.

 

Next is actually doing a setup. My recommendation is always to measure your guitar as it is before starting - measure everything and write it down. Are you satisfied with the way it plays (often we do a setup because we aren't). If you are happy with the action and feel with the lighter strings at concert then you want to duplicate those measurements with your new strings and tunings. If you are not happy then you need to decide what to change.

 

As long as you are not changing the overall tension (or tension of each string) the neck relief should not change. Bari strings will have a slightly larger vibration envelope so you might need to add a little relief, but once again, if it was good before it should work with your new strings. If the relief wasn't good before then that is always the first thing to be set. My target is 4 or so thousands, I might go to 6 on a bari.

 

Assuming your first fret action was good before you will want to widen the nut slots but not make them any deeper. About the only way I know to do that is with gauged nut files and lots of measurements. When you first put the fatter string in the slot it will set higher - measure the first fret clearance and as you widen the slot the string will drop into it. Remember one simple thing about filing nut slots - its easy to make them deeper, hard to make them higher.

 

Setting the 12th fret action is straightforward but I would make it a hair higher than you liked for small strings. I'd probably add 50 thou to each string at the 12th fret. Pretty easy to mess with that later.

 

Intonation might be problematic - the fatter strings will be considerably stiffer and you may have to add significantly more compensation. In fact you might not be able to add enough. If the third string is wound you will have to move its break point forward as it will have a much smaller core. Running the action a bit higher will also hurt the intonation - do the best you can.

 

The third part of this is can you go back? As long as you don't make the nut slots deeper the nut won't be a problem. I typically use the next size file from the gauge of the string so while your slots will be a bit sloppy once the strings are tight it should be fine. If not, then make a new nut - plain and simple. I make nuts every day, takes an hour or so. Same with the rest of the setup - the relief should be OK, you might want to drop the action a hair and you'll need to redo the intonation.

 

I have a friend who I've set up a couple of JagStangs for and he likes D tuning, but the guitars have very short scales (24 inches) and trems with locking nuts. I've had OK luck setting these up with 13's (with the trem he doesn't need to do 2 step bends). I think you'll be satisfied with yours.

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Ok, let's look at the basics here. You are taking a guitar designed for standard tuning, and making a baritone out of it. This is MORE then just a simple setup. There will be a few issues that you may not have thought about.

 

1) Yes, you will need to re cut the nut. And it probably won't be usable for standard strings once you do. So make a second nut for the baritone strings. Best bet, if you haven't done it before, have a tech do it for you.

 

2) Expect buzzing and tuning issues. A baritone generally has a 27 to a 30 inch scale. Your C1 is a 25.5 scale. While the 1 1/2 inches doesn't sound like a lot, the shorter length will make the thicker strings move more at pitch, and will buzz against the frets like crazy. UNLESS you raise the action at the nut and the bridge, which will make the guitar harder to play. ALSO, your bridge may not have enough movement in it to intonate properly. Especially if you have to raise the action to compensate for buzzing. Also, your necks truss rod may need to be adjust, to allow for relief.

 

3) Will the strings fit thru the ferrules thru the body? Will they fit thru the tuner holes? Will they fit in the grooves in the saddles of the bridge? The saddles may need to be cut a bit wider. Again, not something for someone that hasn't done it before to do properly.

 

See, not a simple setup, now is it. You can buy a cheap Ibanez Gio 7 string, low B to E, for around the 100 USD mark used. Something to think about, true?

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If you use standard gauged strings with core sizes designed for standard tuning you can expect erratic strings vibrations, string buzz and tuning issues when tuned more then a couple of semitones lower.

 

You want to use are strings specifically designed for Drop tuning. The have larger cores which create a stable vibration without becoming all wonky when picked hard. DR and GHS bot make dropped tuning strings more suitable to low tuning, especially if you're going all the way down to a B

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"585436000000000-00-160x160.jpg","data-attachmentid":32505874}[/ATTACH][ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"100447000000000-00-160x160.jpg","data-attachmentid":32505875}[/ATTACH][ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"712635000000000-00-160x160.jpg","data-attachmentid":32505876}[/ATTACH]

 

 

Personally I'd take bad penguin's advice and get yourself a second guitar for low tuning. That Schechter is a nice guitar and it would be a shame to bugger the Nut and bridge up to fit heavier gauged strings. I'd find a low cost beater which has inexpensive spare parts available in abundance. This way is you ever want to reverse the modifications it would be easy to but a new nut and bridge. In fact with the right type of bridge you wouldn't even need to mod it either way.

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Take the gauge of your high E and add about 1/3. That's your new string gauge. If you're using 9-42's go with 12-54's; if it's 10-46's go with 13-56's, etc. FWIW, your guitar shipped with Ernie Ball 10-46's. And yes, they'll fit through the ferrules and the string posts and sit properly in the saddles; that's a false narrative. I have Skinny Top Heavy Bottom 10-52 strings on my own Schecter and they fit just fine, thank you. "Drop tuning" strings would be nice but they're not absolutely required; that's more marketing than reality. Depending on how snug the nut slots are, you might need to widen them but I'm betting not. The difference between a .046 and a .056 is 1/100 of an inch, about five sheets of paper. There should already be enough "slop" in the slots to allow for the heavier gauge. If there isn't, you can widen the offending slots yourself or have a tech do it. String tension and relief should stay about the same. You might have to raise the action though. The only real issue will be whether you have enough saddle travel to intonate it properly. Beyond that, it's just a setup, nothing you can't handle.

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the guitarist in my brothers band uses ernie ball "not even slinky" he tunes down to B, this is him playing or miming

[video=youtube;lUA1u9oBBV8]

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"not even slinky.jpg","data-attachmentid":32508653}[/ATTACH]

 

 

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the guitarist in my brothers band uses ernie ball "not even slinky" he tunes down to B' date=' . . .[/quote']

12's, which is what your brother uses, are equivalent to 9's in Standard tuning. There are also 13's available from various manufacturers:

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"D'a13.jpg","data-attachmentid":32508668}[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"EB13.jpg","data-attachmentid":32508669}[/ATTACH]

 

In any event, the OP hasn't been back in nearly a week so it may not matter. :(

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12's, which is what your brother uses, are equivalent to 9's in Standard tuning. There are also 13's available from various manufacturers:

In any event, the OP hasn't been back in nearly a week so it may not matter. :(

Hi deepend hope your well . i used to use 7`s maybe it was in the 70`s then i moved up to 8`s that may have been in the 80`s who knows ,i did work my way up the gauges a bit like my wasteline, at the moment i use 11`s on my electrics standard tuning , don`t think i`ll be trying 19`s in 2019. lol

 

 

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2) Expect buzzing and tuning issues. A baritone generally has a 27 to a 30 inch scale. Your C1 is a 25.5 scale. While the 1 1/2 inches doesn't sound like a lot, the shorter length will make the thicker strings move more at pitch, and will buzz against the frets like crazy. UNLESS you raise the action at the nut and the bridge, which will make the guitar harder to play. ALSO, your bridge may not have enough movement in it to intonate properly. Especially if you have to raise the action to compensate for buzzing. Also, your necks truss rod may need to be adjust, to allow for relief.

 

This particularly because it is a catch-22

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This particularly because it is a catch-22

Actually, no. If you choose your gauges carefully, the only string that might cause problems is the low B. Let's say the OP is using 10's (0.010-0.046) in Standard (because the math is easy). For a typical set, such as D'Addario EXL110's, the B (2nd) string is a 0.013. If the OP goes up to 13's (0.013-0.056) and tunes down to B, the first, 0.013, string becomes the B string, exactly like it was before. A 0.013 string tuned to B is still a 0.013 string tuned to B. The same thing applies to the next four strings. With D'Addario EJ22's, for example, the 5th string is a 0.046, just like the 6th string was originally, and it's tuned to E again so the tension remains the same. Finally, consulting the D'Addario String Tension Chart, we find that a 0.056 tuned down to B will have about 14.8 lbs. tension, the same as a 0.042 tuned to E, vs. 17.5 lbs. for a 0.046 tuned to E so you might feel the difference. It will be the same as the 6th string in a set of 0.009-0.0042, such as the D'Addario EXL120, at Standard pitch, a bit looser than ideal but not a deal breaker and nothing a few small tweaks can't overcome. Not particularly floppy unless you're used to heavy gauge in Standard on an acoustic. You certainly won't need to make any drastic changes.

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12's, which is what your brother uses, are equivalent to 9's in Standard tuning. There are also 13's available from various manufacturers:

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"D'a13.jpg","data-attachmentid":32508668}[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"EB13.jpg","data-attachmentid":32508669}[/ATTACH]

 

In any event, the OP hasn't been back in nearly a week so it may not matter. :(

He hasn't been back because he's been banned...:wave:

 

 

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Insufficiently argumentative for HC I suspect LoL

There are a certain number of one post wonders who turn out to be bots or spammers, and they seem to be more prevalent lately. These days I tend to look askance at any new poster. When daddymack said the OP had been banned and there was only the one post, I knew there had been other posts that had been deleted, probably for spam. As for being argumentative, if the n00bs won't do it, it's up to the rest of us to pick up the slack. ;)

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