Members Hazarai81 Posted March 12, 2019 Members Share Posted March 12, 2019 Hi Guys, I recently got this great 70's (I think) Japanese made Les Paul Junior copy. Initially I thought it was a Lawsuit era Ibanez but doing some research I think its possibly a Univox. The cool thing is it has the Gibson silkscreen logo, Les Paul signature & 'Junior' headstock decals, 'bell' truss rod cover & the Gibson headstock open book shape. I'm curious as I've only come across a few images that also have the Gibson decals instead of 'Univox' 'Ibanez' or 'Burny' etc. It seems there are lots of copies that share the Lawsuit headstock shape but only a few that have the Gibson decals. The decals, paint job certainly are high quality & it certainly doesn't look like a homemade copy & paste a Gibson logo on. It's a bolt on neck with the chrome neck plate with 'Made In Japan' stamp. The machine heads have been replaced with Schaller/Ovation in chrome, they work fine & the guitar holds its tuning very well even with heavy bends. The bridge is a 'badass' style, I've not changed strings yet so I've not taken it off to see the brand or if its a Leo Quan. Not sure if this has been replaced or the original but the guitar has great intonation & sustain for days. Neck wise it feels pretty wide & fat but feels & plays great, super comfy. The body looks like one piece slab mahogany with one piece mahogany neck & rosewood fingerboard. The colour of the neck looks more cherry red than the more cherry/brown body. It's a fantastic playing & sounding guitar - the electronics really work well & you can hear a difference when you roll the Tone knob from 10 to 8 to 8 to 5 etc. It has 500k pots in it. The P90 has that classic 'bark', single coil chime but with the added mid range & girth that P90s give. I can't see any name/numbers on the pickup but it certainly sounds the part. I have two vintage Fender Strats, a late 90s Japanese Fender Jazzmaster, Hagstrom Swede & Danelectro '59 korean reissue but now I can't put the Junior down! Please see pictures and if anyone can shed any more light on what this guitar is & any more info that would be great. In the meantime I'm absolutely loving my 'Gibson' LP Junior! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted March 12, 2019 Members Share Posted March 12, 2019 That's a counterfeit, not a copy. It could have been made anywhere, but I suspect it was 'doctored' recently. I'd remove the fake stuff and play it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted March 12, 2019 Members Share Posted March 12, 2019 The term "lawsuit" in this context usually refers to copies that still had the makers name on it; ibanez for example. That's a straight up forgery. What makes you think that's a 70s era guitar, and not a more recent china made counterfeit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 12, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 12, 2019 Yup...counterfeit...putting the Gibby logo on there?A travesty. And illegal.A junior with a bolt on neck?Puh-lease...A black pickguard? [my '59' had tortoise shell] so not even period correct. I hope you didn't pay a lot, and you should admonish whoever sold you this instrument that regardless of disclosure, this is still a counterfeit instrument. If the seller offered no provenance, and did not disclose how they came in possession of the guitar, obvious fake that it is, that should have been a red flag. If you intend to gig with this instrument, GH is correct, remove or obscure the Gibson logo.If you intend to resell it, think long and hard.Technically, you should report the instrument here: https://www.gibson.com/Support/Report-Counterfeits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 12, 2019 Members Share Posted March 12, 2019 I don't remember Univox making anything which came close to looking like or sounding like a Gibson. They made a bunch of instruments which were actually decent enough to stand on their own and didn't need to resort to counterfeiting, especially back then when Gibson had the muscle and would have taken them to the cleaners. Looks like it has an Epiphone body with a fake Gibson neck bolted on it. Gibson's have glued in necks. The pickguard is spot on for an Epi too. The bridge was swapped out for an adjustable one. Its easy to find a Fake Gibson neck and slap it on an Epiphone. If this guitar was built to be a counterfeit why copy an Epiphone body then slap a Gibson neck on it. Its easier to just copy and Epiphone and bolt the neck on or a Gibson with a set neck. To forge each separately makes no sense at all. I suspect this was one of those Cheap Epi's which sold for $99 a couple of years ago. The owner either busted the neck or tried to improve it using a counterfeit neck and bridge. Given its wear, its undoubtable worth less then it would have been with the original neck. Chinese necks can be all over the place for quality and you wouldn't fool most musicians with a bolt on. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"yqyf1swdyt9oyibdanlf.jpg","data-attachmentid":32489347}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted March 13, 2019 Members Share Posted March 13, 2019 I'll respectfully disagree with Grant, Mr Brown, Daddy and W. YES it is a Univox copy from 70-74 or so. BUT someone added the decals which can be had on feebay. ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-with...QAAOSwpiFa04CA )The bolt on neck is the giveaway. NONE of the recent Chinese copies have that, they are set necks. Even the Epi's are set necks. The neck plate is the same size that Uncle Matt (Matsumuko) used on the Univoxs of the early 70's. Also, though it could be the angle, but there seems to be some finish bubbling on the tuners. I mean, how hard is it to refinish a headstock? And while thinking about it a few hours later, this reminds me of something I saw happen a few years ago. While in Cowtown guitars in Vegas, I saw a Greco Jr copy there, that was in the process of being refinished by the owner of the store. He told me it was his little project. I went back a month later, and the guitar was still there, but now with a Gibson logo, and in the process of being reliced. I looked at him, shook my head, and NEVER went back there again. Funny how the mighty fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 13, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2019 I'll respectfully disagree with Grant' date=' Mr Brown, Daddy and W. YES it is a Univox copy from 70-74 or so. BUT someone added the decals which can be had on feebay. ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-with...QAAOSwpiFa04CA ) The bolt on neck is the giveaway. NONE of the recent Chinese copies have that, they are set necks. Even the Epi's are set necks. The neck plate is the same size that Uncle Matt (Matsumuko) used on the Univoxs of the early 70's. Also, though it could be the angle, but there seems to be some finish bubbling on the tuners. I mean, how hard is it to refinish a headstock? And while thinking about it a few hours later, this reminds me of something I saw happen a few years ago. While in Cowtown guitars in Vegas, I saw a Greco Jr copy there, that was in the process of being refinished by the owner of the store. He told me it was his little project. I went back a month later, and the guitar was still there, but now with a Gibson logo, and in the process of being reliced. I looked at him, shook my head, and NEVER went back there again. Funny how the mighty fall. I didn't say it wasn't a Univox...it very likely is; what we were after is the Gibson logo that someone added to it. That is where the counterfeit issue is. If the OP ever goes to sell it with that logo on there, he is breaking the law. Not to mention the 'open book' headstock. That could easily have been carved from the original Univox. [see example from that era below] I also agree that the newer Chinese knockoffs are set neck and many come with a [typically incorrect] logo...sometimes no dot on the 'i', short tail on the 'n' or closed top of the 'o', although Gibson has occasionally eliminated the dot ... Everyone in Japan knocked off Gibson [and Fender, Rickenbacker, Mosrite] in the 60s and early 70s...even Ibanez. But they didn't put the American brand logo on it. But they did utilize other trademarks like headstock, body shapes etc. What is really sad is that it is a 'bad' copy, with the bolt neck and black pickguard...cheap... and, to WRGKMC, I don't see how one can bolt a 'Gibson' neck on an Epiphone body...Gibson hasn't made bolt necks with the 'open book' headstock in decades...so the neck would still be a counterfeit, but I doubt anyone really does that commercially...and Univox did make setneck LPJs which were pretty good in the early 70s https://reverb.com/item/5768547-1970...-tv-yellow-mij Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hazarai81 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2019 Thanks for the comments guys. I respectfully agree with badpenguin that it's most likely a Univox that someone has later painted and added the 'Gibson' decals. Most likely made at the Matsumuko factory.I bought the guitar off a work colleague so wasn't ripped off and we always knew it was a 'knock off' I paid $700 Aud so about 500 US. Bolt on neck and incorrect pickguard aside I really don't care as the guitar absolutely sings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 18, 2019 Members Share Posted March 18, 2019 NONE of the recent Chinese copies have that' date=' they are set necks. Even the Epi's are set necks. [/quote'] Not quite. The 1997 Korean made JR's are bolt on necks as are several other Epiphone JR's [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tt0zgpwuqtslexccaa1ce.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t79.4 KB ID:\t32491983","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32491983","data-size":"full","title":"t0zgpwuqtslexccaa1ce.jpg"}[/ATTACH] The 1998 version even had the same knobs with the pointers. [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\ttzyeqtkuosvxxyr0bywt.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t95.5 KB ID:\t32491984","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32491984","data-size":"full","title":"tzyeqtkuosvxxyr0bywt.jpg"}[/ATTACH] It could have been a Univox JR with the neck plate added. The Univox bolted on from the top under the pick guard. [img2=JSON]{"alt":"Image result for Double cutaway LP Jr with bolt on neck","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","height":"578","width":"434","src":"http:\/\/img.photobucket.com\/albums\/v502\/Pacafeliz\/Offsets\/DSC02569.jpg"}[/img2] I still suspect it was an Epiphone body parted out on eBay and someone found a neck to fit it. It could be a fixed neck with a new neck plate added to give the neck better support too. No problem finding a bolt on neck kit either. They're all over the place. [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tgibson-les-paul-junior-double-cutaway-diy-electric-guitar-kit-2-274x293.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t14.9 KB ID:\t32491985","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32491985","data-size":"full","title":"gibson-les-paul-junior-double-cutaway-diy-electric-guitar-kit-2-274x293.jpg"}[/ATTACH] The pots, wiring are definitely not Gibson. Ovation Tuners. Epiphones does use the thinner plastic coated color wire and inexpensive pots. There's no way of knowing any of that's original however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 18, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 18, 2019 Not quite. The 1997 Korean made JR's are bolt on necks as are several other Epiphone JR's To be fair...1997 is hardly what I would call 'recent'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.