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Line level input with passive guitar pickup


jjang1993

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Hey everyone,

I recently got a 300 watt Behringer Keyboard (UltraTone K3000fx) amp that lives in my trunk that I intend to use as a backup amp. When plugging my guitar in the line input (I'm guessing line level) the volume is very low even with the gain knob on that channel and master up at 12 o'clock. I used my Donner Boost Killer with the volume maxed and gain down and I got the volume up a bit and it's not clipping. This pedal is advertised as offering a 20db boost, not sure if it's dependent or effected by the gain knob. Is that about as hot as a signal can get in terms of using pedals to get this signal to line level, or are there other means to get a hotter signal that are cheap?

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I'd suggest some sort of multi effects box. I use a Pandora PX5D and set output option of pedal to amp/lin --> line. Allows friend to plug in through that then into battery powered amp on the beach via aux input/mp3.

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Your Donner Boost Killer has a high impedance 10K out and is designed to be plugged into a higher gain guitar amp.

Plugged into a 800ohm line level input its going to sound highly anemic as you've likely discovered.

 

Pandora PX5D is pretty expensive just to get a signal up to line level. You can buy a Sans amp Clone like this for $29 https://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/behringer-gdi21-v-tone-guitar-driver-di-guitar-amp-modeler-direct-recording-preamp-di-box-effects-pedal Its designed for direct recording at like level and will get your guitar signal up to a line level feed and has a few setting to give you basic guitar amp modeling that should be useful. I bought one years ago and it will give you a basic, Marshall, Fender, Mesa tones and have very low noise added

 

You can find these all over EBay for practically nothing and they will get your guitar signal up to line level. The tube gives the guitar a little compression and warmth too. https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/art-tube-mp-studio-mic-preamp/180581000000000?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0JiJzoX53AIVS7nACh2JQg0GEAQYASABEgKF-vD_BwE&kwid=productads-adid^246351748708-device^c-plaid^323968856543-sku^180581000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

 

Of course you can use many different multieffects pedals as Emory suggests too. Any of the models designed for direct recording that have line level outs will do the job. It merely depends on whether you want just a clean tone, amp modeling, or the entire array of effects. I've used the Digitec and Vox stomplab pedals. The Digitic have a button on the output to select between Instrument level and line levels. The Vox use a soft switch which you select in its settings.

 

There are plenty of older rack preamps that would do the job beautifully too. Many were designed to run power heads and speakers directly and will feed anything with a line level input.

 

That amp also has a mic level input. You could use that Same amp clone to feed a mic level input too because it has an XLR output too, or you could just use a simple passive DI box. One of these to feed a mic level input works fine. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/pyle-direct-box/6369152.p?skuId=6369152&ref=212&loc=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2arOv4r53AIVELnACh0hFwjYEAQYAyABEgI8wvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

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Not being much of a pedal guy, I got PX5D as sort of Swiss knife thing. Only years later did I figure it would work for aux input. Good suggestions on cheaper alternatives.. always (well, usually) nice to learn something new!

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A passive DI will work, and *should* be louder than the boost pedal into a line input, provided the XLR inputs are "mic" level.

 

Let me suggest an alternative, an active guitar preamp/DI box, you'll get tone and gain controls, and the preamp is "voiced" for electric guitar, so it will sound more like a guitar amp and less like a "dry" electric guitar plugged into a PA.

 

The Behringer GDI-21 is one example of a guitar DI pedal,

Tech21 made the original, the SansAmp GT pedal, the modern version is the SansAmp GT2

As Emory suggested, a multi-effect unit like the Korg Pandora or a Line6 Pod (or Pocket Pod) might meet your needs. "Ampless" setups

 

Plugging an electric guitar straight into a PA is wrong. :lol: Well, it's not "wrong" but it won't sound good. Here's why: PA systems try to have a "flat" frequency response. Guitar amps are typically "voiced" to have a strong mid-scoop even with their tone controls at a neutral setting. There's a reason for this - magnetic guitar pickups' signal has a very strong midrange. Because of the way magnetic pickups work, the bass and treble are weaker. Guitar amps have boosted bass and treble to compensate.

 

Plugging an electric guitar into a full-range, flat response system sounds harsh.

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I found a Rolls Matchbox Passive DI. If I get a mic cable and plug that into the mic input of the PA System' date=' will the signal from my guitar, through the DI be louder, and if so, louder than the Boost Killer?[/quote']

 

^^ It should be of decent volume to work well with the mic input and DI. The DI should likely be set of -10dB to prevent overdriving a mic level input. Its still better then that booster and line level input which has an impedance mismatch. Its the wrong kind of preamp for that application.

 

What you really need is a preamp with an instrument level input and a line level output to get the proper volume levels.

On top of that you need something which can model the amp so it doesn't simply sound like you're playing through a Hi Fi speaker.

 

Most electric guitar amps are what you'd call low fidelity. They have a speaker which doesn't produce much more then 6KHz, allot of bottom end roll off and an amplifier which pushed allot of midrange gain to get a magnetic pickup to sound good.

 

If the amp and speaker aren't right for that job then you have to Model it electronically. What you have now is a keyboard amp that produces High Fidelity, like a PA cab or home stereo speaker using a woofer/tweeter/crossover. That's OK for keyboard, Vocals, even Acoustic guitar and Bass.

 

Unless your goal is to play jazz guitar its not going to sound very good on an electric and the string touch is going to be lousy too for just about anything besides cowboy chords. Best option cost wise and sound wise is to use an amp modeling pedal which will fix the amps impedance, gain and voicing and make the cab sound like a guitar amp/speaker.

 

A DI box without the modeling is going to sick for sound quality.

 

There are dozens of pedals designed to work in your situation and you don't have to spend a mint on matching the impedance or getting the tone you need.

 

Here are a few more which will do the job and you can even choose the kind of amp tone you want.

 

This one will make it sound like a Fender amp - https://www.cheaperpedals.com/products/joyo-american-sound-jf-14-pedal

 

A Vox amp - https://www.cheaperpedals.com/products/joyo-ac-tone-jf-13-pedal

 

A Marshall amp - https://www.cheaperpedals.com/products/joyo-british-sound-jf-16-pedal

 

A Mesa Amp - https://www.cheaperpedals.com/products/joyo-jf-15-california-sound-pedal

 

I own the American and AC Tone and both do a wonderful job nailing those amps.

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Cool, got the DI box working and got a used Joyo American Sound, the DI and Keyboard Amp will be a formidable backup to my primary amp for gigs. I play mostly jazz, so should that Joyo pedal go down, I should be fine. This keyboard amp has a 7 band EQ so it has some degree of flexibility.

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How do you like the sounds you get from that American Sound pedal?

 

I'm able to nail down a decent Deluxe and Bassman tone with it recording. I found it can work well playing bass through it too on its clean settings with mids scooped. You may want to try some of the others eventually too. The AC tone will give your Beatlesque cleans and jangle or Tom Petty type AC 30 driven Tones. They make the Marshall and Mesa versions too. I'm not interested in Mesa Tones and I already have several Marshal pedals but I may pick up the Marshall versions for the cleans it can produce. If you're into Jazz and Into Jeff Beck, it might be the pedal you want to nail the tones he gets.

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I'm a jazz guy that loves Fender Blackface amps. I can get that Joyo pedal really close to sounding like my Vintage Sound 35sc miked up with it running into Pro Tools. This pedal is versatile, preamp for a PA system, preamp for your amp, EQ for amps that don't have EQ, traditional overdrive pedal, and amp simulator for recording.

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