Well it happened....Gibson filed for chapter 11 Bankruptcy!

[webe123]

From USA Today:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...tcy/567821002/

 

 

[badpenguin]

Been expecting this for a while, and now that the notes are due.... it's, well, expected.

[Freeman Keller]

Ho, hum

[steve_man]

not really a Gibson fan anyways...

[Chordite]

Chapter 11 means that there is the possibility of Gibson emerging at the other end of the reorganisation tunnel. There will probably be major changes to product and pricing policies as well as a close look at staffing and premises. These will be accountant decisions with little "romantic" input.

Despite what you read in the MSM the economy is really picking up it's just that Gibson had stayed in dinosaur land too long into the major global changes of the 2000s and the dubious diversifications outside of their specialism were obviously not the solution.

Take heart from the earlier turn around of Harley Davidson who occupied a considerably similar niche and had to make a similar re invention in 2009

[1001gear]

I'm not a fan of expensive so essentially, BFD. Other threads do say the guitars are holding their own if not better.

[Axisplayer]

Under the terms of the Chapter 11, some of the creditors are now equity partners. Some debt was forgiven (reduced). In short, they will be in a better position than they were financially, but their new partners have little to no guitar making experience so the emphasis will be profitability, not quality. Yes, they might be OK if the partners learn that crap won't keep them afloat. More likely I believe will be a reduction in high end equipment that players cant usually afford, and more emphasis on middle and low end. Gibson has almost no presence in entry level, and only a little in the mid market.

 

Gibson has to realize that most frequently, buyers do not have $2500+ for a guitar. Sure, plenty of folks do, but bread and butter needs to compete with Fender, etc at realistic pricing where ~$1K gets you a very nice guitar. Thats an expensive Fender, but only a studio Gibson. That market mentality will kill them if they don't change.

[sammyreynolds01]

What people are misunderstanding Gibson isn't in this position because of the MI (Musical Instrument) side of things. It's the electronic side that's killing them. From reading the court docs. Henry J is willing to accept a buyout.

[GAS Man]

Gibson has to realize that most frequently' date=' buyers do not have $2500+ for a guitar. Sure, plenty of folks do, but bread and butter needs to compete with Fender, etc at realistic pricing where ~$1K gets you a very nice guitar. That's an expensive Fender, but only a studio Gibson. That market mentality will kill them if they don't change.[/quote']

 

However, I must say I saw the price of Fenders take a fairly dramatic price leap recently, but indeed there still is a big price gap between a good quality Fender and a good quality Gibson. My last Fender purchase was a Fender Professional Stratocaster Sienna Burst/Ash. That's there new name for "American Standard". They are charging another Benjamin for their "ash" models these days, and I'm not sure why; but I do know that when it comes to an ash bodied guitar, it had better be a good select ash, because some of the denser northern ash can be more "toppy" sounding (i.e. not deeply resonant) and piercingly bright. But anyway, my point is I wiggled the deal down to $1,330 ($220 off the $1,550) which I thought was still a bit steep since it wasn't that many years ago I was able to purchase a similar Standard for my stepson for $975 (might have been about 8 or so years ago though). But that's still about 4.6% price increase per year.

 

But back to your comment on entry level Gibson, I agree.

 

I think one of the coolest things they did (although they did it through the MF/GC "exclusive" distribution ) was the dual single coil pickup Gibson Melody Maker in Worn White. It sold for about $375, mine was $350 (although I'm again dating myself since that was about 11 years ago) but there was truly nothing lacking in those guitars, in that you got what you should expect from a Gibson for that price and a bit more. The "bit more" was the surprisingly great tone of its single coils which didn't try to mimic the Fender tone, but instead came somewhere in between that and P-90 tone. If you didn't get one from the MF/GC group, then the distribution was limited to just a bridge pickup version but for less money.

 

But their latest venture into entry level guitars (some of which seemed to be Amazon exclusives) contained some cheaper imported pots and switches and had fairly widely reported problems with the bridges. In other words, they were less MIA and inferior design rather than merely being stripped down, as was the case for the Melody Maker Dual SC. I still have mine and it's not going anywhere soon.

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"gibson-melody-maker-dual-pickup-worn-white-254226.jpg","data-attachmentid":32220281}[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

[Mikeo]

I wish Gibson well in the restructuring. Hope they turn out stronger in the end.

 

I like my American made Gibson products as much as I like my American Made Fender products.

 

With that being said the last guitar I bought was a Rickenbacker 350v63.

 

 

 

 

 

[crustoleum]

I wonder if Epiphone will in any way, be somehow changed, also, by "this", maybe ? hmm, Well, I do wonder that, now, actually ... hmm

[Etienne Rambert]

 

 

Both my low-cost Gibsons have better fit and finish than my Fender Jazzmaster, considering the JM's notoriously crappy bridge*. They all 3 have great action.

 

The JM was the most expensive of the 3. It sounds exactly like a JM. So it's a keeper for lead parts. But it's unsuitable for rhythms.

 

*(This year Fender celebrates 60 years of crappy Jazzmaster bridges.)

 

The LP Faded by far is the most tone-versatile. The double-cut is the one that gets the most playing time. I love picking it up & playing it. I take my Rockabilly lessons on it.

 

 

 

[img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/www.harmonycentral.com\/forum\/filedata\/fetch?photoid=32141544"}[/img2]

[ThomFromMyspace]

Oh, snap!

Well... I guess I could see that coming. They were starting to lose their leverage lately..

[knotty]

Anybody daft enough to buy Philips AV deserves all they get.

[Etienne Rambert]

What people are misunderstanding Gibson isn't in this position because of the MI (Musical Instrument) side of things. It's the electronic side that's killing them. From reading the court docs. Henry J is willing to accept a buyout.

 

 

Correct. But don’t expect to persuade any Gibson haters. It is more fashionable to say its guitar business is unstable & its guitars s**k.

 

Analysts seem to think its guitar biz is sustainable. My recent experience is the guitars are reasonably-priced and well-made.

 

But what do I know? I only bought 3 in 2017. I must be mistaken.

[WRGKMC]

 

More likely I believe will be a reduction in high end equipment that players cant usually afford, and more emphasis on middle and low end. Gibson has almost no presence in entry level, and only a little in the mid market.

 

 

Sure it does - Its called "Epiphone" There's nothing wrong with a company having high end instruments too so long as they have buyers.

 

Gibson had a couple of issues they need to fix.

 

First is management. They have too many paychecks going to people who don't earn profit. This is m "a typical" scenario when you let sales people rule over builders. You cant debate whether there is a long term need for some of the things they've done but when you cant pay the bills upi need to dump the dead wood. Period.

 

Second stay away from politics. Politics and music never mix. Never has, never will. Doesn't matter who was justified, you simply need to steer clear.

 

Third, High tech and Tradition don't mix vey well. A company can't be all things to everyone. Gibson has an identity crisis going on and has lost the path that leads to profits. Any blind man knows traditional big spenders aren't interested in high tech. They buy a Gibson for its quality and don't want anything that hasn't proven itself to last a lifetime added. Its like when I bought my 40th anniversary LP, they stuck garbage pot metal tuners on the thing. One bump and the rivets that hold them together snap and then you have to buy a whole new set at a premium cost.

 

That's the stuff penny pinchers do to destroy a good product. Engineers and sales people leave out the advice of the most important element of all when it comes to making decisions. They stop listening to the people building and the people using the products. They don't want the feedback because it conflicts with where they think things should be going (which winds up being bankruptcy)

 

You can typically blame it on them loosing their experienced builders too. In small companies the Luthier, designer, builder and buyer of raw materials are all the same person with the same vision. The trend of large companies is to separate those roles. They destroy the bond between designer and builder by bringing in low paid unskilled workers and automation. Then sales takes over thinking they can steer the company. They then proceed to driving it right off the rails.

 

I don't need to know any of the particulars. I've worked for 5 major companies that went bankrupt and the causes were always the same.

Sales people are important to a company selling a product but your have to keep them out of top management. Sales people feed on ego and profits and you give them the keys to the bank and they will drain it dry and bail out to go someplace else. You need strong people from all areas of the company represented all seeking the best for the company. There is of course more internal friction, but its exactly that friction that makes a company take baby steps which are far more healthy.

[knotty]

^^^^^^

 

Ive read all of this and it's mainly drivel. Wrong on so many levels. The diversification and acquisition is what caused the damage. Its not a cottage industry with a few long haired old luthiers whitling guitars from magic wood.