Members Danocoustic Posted April 23, 2018 Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 ...while still fully engaged in the neck and body? I was taking the neck off one of my Strats and KINK! the screw broke about 1/4" below flush with the back of the neck. This is gonna be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 23, 2018 Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 I had one brought to me with a broken screw. Took the neck off, clamped it in the drill press (using a 12 inch radius caul against the frets) and drilled a hole in the middle of the screw. Threaded an easy-out screw extractor into it and, bingo. really pretty straightforward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted April 23, 2018 Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 Never had that happen in a guitar neck. Best way I've seen to remove broken screws in wood are these things in the link below. Then you drill out and clean the hole, fill with a dowel and redrill for the screw pilot hole. https://www.woodcraft.com/products/screw-extractor-1-4?gclid=CjwKCAjwiPbWBRBtEiwAJakcpIS0waHf_rDCAQr96jGwbfMHCaBolTaKIuqQpfWyHkuej5jaIrbW0BoCE0cQAvD_BwE The backwards threaded type extractors don't work great in wood because the bit always wants to wander into the softer material (wood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 23, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 I had one brought to me with a broken screw. Took the neck off, clamped it in the drill press (using a 12 inch radius caul against the frets) and drilled a hole in the middle of the screw. Threaded an easy-out screw extractor into it and, bingo. really pretty straightforward I wasn't clear, Freeman. The threads are still fully engaged in the body AND the neck, holding them tightly together. I can't take the neck off! The screw broke as soon as I started to back it out---I got maybe 1/4" of shank and the head out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted April 23, 2018 Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 I wasn't clear, Freeman. The threads are still fully engaged in the body AND the neck, holding them tightly together. I can't take the neck off! The screw broke as soon as I started to back it out---I got maybe 1/4" of shank and the head out. That might be the root cause of your problem. The screws should pass freely through the body so that when the screw is tightened it pulls the neck into the body. Makes for a stronger joint with less stress/strain on the fastener. Something to think about when you are ready for reassembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 23, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 That might be the root cause of your problem. The screws should pass freely through the body so that when the screw is tightened it pulls the neck into the body. Makes for a stronger joint with less stress/strain on the fastener. Something to think about when you are ready for reassembly. I believe you meant that the screw should pass freely through the NECK, not the body. I agree; I know that. I didn't assemble this guitar. I'm no Freeman Keller, but I'm not a raw n00b either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted April 23, 2018 Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 I believe you meant that the screw should pass freely through the NECK, not the body. I agree; I know that. I didn't assemble this guitar. I'm no Freeman Keller, but I'm not a raw n00b either No I did mean body. The screw threads should not bite into the body wood at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 23, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 No I did mean body. The screw threads should not bite into the body wood at all. Sh*t, it's me who blew it. You're right, sorry. Don't know...senior moment :idk:But I did know that the screw has to pass...at least that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 23, 2018 Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 Yes, the hole in the body should be clearanced for the screw - the threads should only be cut in the neck. It gets worse if you have any sort of shim in the neck pocket. You can still use an easy out - you'll either have to built some sort of cradle to hold the guitar level in a drill press (best) or try to drill the hole with a hand held drill. I would take the effort to level and stabilize it in the drill press. The other possibility, but this would be a last ditch effort, would be to make a hollow bit that fit over the broken part of the screw and make a little recess around it. You could possibly get ahold of the screw with needle nosed vice grips or you could possibly file a cross notch that would act as a screw head. StewMac sells a cutter like this as part of their broken truss rod kit http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Truss_Rods/StewMac_Truss_Rod_Rescue_Tools.html Your neck plate will cover the hole in the body, but I would try the easy out first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 23, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 Yes, the hole in the body should be clearanced for the screw - the threads should only be cut in the neck. It gets worse if you have any sort of shim in the neck pocket. You can still use an easy out - you'll either have to built some sort of cradle to hold the guitar level in a drill press (best) or try to drill the hole with a hand held drill. I would take the effort to level and stabilize it in the drill press. The other possibility, but this would be a last ditch effort, would be to make a hollow bit that fit over the broken part of the screw and make a little recess around it. You could possibly get ahold of the screw with needle nosed vice grips or you could possibly file a cross notch that would act as a screw head. StewMac sells a cutter like this as part of their broken truss rod kit http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Truss_Rods/StewMac_Truss_Rod_Rescue_Tools.html Your neck plate will cover the hole in the body, but I would try the easy out first Fellas---I know about clearance, I misspoke to mrbrown49 earlier about neck or body, I know! Actually, I already dealt with it. Using a system of bench clamps and a modified wheel puller, I pulled the two pieces apart. Had some minor tearout around the hole in the neck pocket but not bad (it was ALMOST big enough for clearance). Glad this is one of my cheap beginner guitars (I build 'em up from parts and sell 'em to students). Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 23, 2018 Members Share Posted April 23, 2018 I was going to suggest a way to make a cutter like the StewMac thing out of a piece of stainless steel or hydraulic tubing, my idea would have been to cut the clearance all the way thru the body stopping at the neck. The screw would have just fallen out of the hole, you could grab it with vise grips and remove it. Your method is a little more brute force (and did run some risks) but accomplished the same thing. The clearance thing is important (and I'm not harping at you but maybe others don't realize this). If you have threads in both the body and the neck you cannot pull the neck tight to the body - they will remain in the same relationship as when the threads were cut. Just always drill the body hole 1/16 larger than the diameter of the screw and life will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted April 24, 2018 Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 Fine result!! Nice one for helping out your students like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 24, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 Fine result!! Nice one for helping out your students like that. Hey koiwoi Not MY students, actually---I don't teach---but a good friend does, and we work together some. I gather guitars/parts from pawn shops, yard sales, wherever and build 'em up into decent instruments, sell 'em cheap. I don't make much but I don't lose anything and it keeps me off the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted April 24, 2018 Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 Hey buddy! Great to see you back around these parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 24, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 Hey buddy! Great to see you back around these parts! Thanks brudda, good to see you too. Saw your tele, you lucky mook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted April 24, 2018 Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 What I would have done was simply taken a fine drill bit and drilled a hole parallel, right up against the screw. The body holes need to be bigger then the screw anyway. I've done singular things using heat. I have one of those really big soldering irons, the kind you can use for soldering an amp chassis. If I can get to the tip of the screw end I'd just heat it till it smokes and it would just pull right out. Did that last year on a restoration where the guy cracked a headstock and thought he's use a screw as a clamp for the glue. It worked for holding the wood together but he glued the screw into the wood as well. I was able to heat it enough to get it out of there then fill the hole and go on with the refinishing. You wouldn't know the problem existed if you weren't looking for it afterwards. I suggest you drill your other holes out too. You should have just enough play to adjust your neck tilt and get the strings to align. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted April 24, 2018 Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 I had one brought to me with a broken screw. Took the neck off' date=' clamped it in the drill press (using a 12 inch radius caul against the frets) and drilled a hole in the middle of the screw. [b']Threaded an easy-out screw extractor into it [/b]and, bingo. really pretty straightforward That's how I would dio it. Easy out extractors are handy when you needed and should be in everyone's tool box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 24, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 What I would have done was simply taken a fine drill bit and drilled a hole parallel, right up against the screw. The body holes need to be bigger then the screw anyway. I've done singular things using heat. I have one of those really big soldering irons, the kind you can use for soldering an amp chassis. If I can get to the tip of the screw end I'd just heat it till it smokes and it would just pull right out. Did that last year on a restoration where the guy cracked a headstock and thought he's use a screw as a clamp for the glue. It worked for holding the wood together but he glued the screw into the wood as well. I was able to heat it enough to get it out of there then fill the hole and go on with the refinishing. You wouldn't know the problem existed if you weren't looking for it afterwards. I suggest you drill your other holes out too. You should have just enough play to adjust your neck tilt and get the strings to align. Yeah, that woulda worked. ...and fellas, I KNOW the clearance thing...come ON... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 24, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 That's how I would dio it. Easy out extractors are handy when you needed and should be in everyone's tool box. How you gonna get an EZ-out down the hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 24, 2018 Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 Screw extractor sets usually come with the correct sized bit for each extractor or will tell the bit size to use (they are often numbered bits). You want to drill a hole right down the middle of the broken screw - that is the hard part. Sometimes you can do that with a hand held drill motor - getting the hole started is often hard. I have a drill press and a guitar could easily be placed on the table and leveled (in my case it was just the neck and that was very easy). Obviously if you are trying to get a broken stud out of a car engine you can't put it under a drill press. Once you have the hole drilled into the old screw the extractor threads into the hole just like you were tapping threads, except that it is a reverse direction on the fluted part. You turn it anti clockwise, the flutes bite into the screw and since you are turning it backwards, it screws the broken piece out. I've had as set in my tool box forever and would just automatically reach for one if I had a broken screw or bolt in anything I was working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 24, 2018 Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 For what it is worth, your brute force method worked but you were darn lucky. Trying to pull the two pieces apart meant that something was going to be damaged - you had a 50/50 chance the body wood would fail (which it did) but it could have been the neck (you would have been hosed). Your wheel puller thing could also have done a bunch of damage to the guitar. If you had been a little more patient I (or someone else) would have suggested methods that would have not been invasive or damaging. So, glad you lucked out, but luck isn't something I want to count on. I frequently turn down work where the owner has tried to do something and mucked it up, it almost always costs him more if I take it on. By the way, one of the ugliest things that can happen when using an easy out (or just trying to drill out a broken stud) is to have the drill bit break off while drilling the pilot hole. If that happens the repair can get very interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 24, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2018 For what it is worth, your brute force method worked but you were darn lucky. Trying to pull the two pieces apart meant that something was going to be damaged - you had a 50/50 chance the body wood would fail (which it did) but it could have been the neck (you would have been hosed). Your wheel puller thing could also have done a bunch of damage to the guitar. If you had been a little more patient I (or someone else) would have suggested methods that would have not been invasive or damaging. So, glad you lucked out, but luck isn't something I want to count on. I frequently turn down work where the owner has tried to do something and mucked it up, it almost always costs him more if I take it on. By the way, one of the ugliest things that can happen when using an easy out (or just trying to drill out a broken stud) is to have the drill bit break off while drilling the pilot hole. If that happens the repair can get very interesting... Freeman, I have mucho respect for you, brudda, but I kinda feel like you're stepping on a tender part of my anatomy here. Maybe you saw where I said THIS IS A CHEAP INSTRUMENT. I'm not gonna put a whole lot of time or energy into it, ya dig? I wasn't "lucky". I'm not some raw n00b who just started working on guitars. I was fully aware of what MIGHT happen, and I acted accordingly. The result was no worse than what I expected. Luck really had nothing to do with it. Had this been a customer's guitar that I was working on, I definitely would have taken another approach. I'm sure not looking to fight with you, man, but gimme a little break, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 25, 2018 Members Share Posted April 25, 2018 I overstepped and I apologize. I've had a couple of guitars on the bench lately where the owner, with good intent, did something that turned out very bad. I kept saying to myself "if they had only asked..." Guess that boiled over into my response here. ps it never matters how cheap or valuable they are, I treat them the same. After all, they were designed to make music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted April 25, 2018 Members Share Posted April 25, 2018 I still would try to do that with a drill press. I clean up the whole and the then carefully hand turn that extractor to see if you can get a bit on of what stuck inside. Like Freeman says you don't want to rely on luck. I built a cigar box guitar and broke of a lil screw that holds on a tuning key right in the back of the maple neck. Not that I was working on some kind of time constrictions, but that set me back an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danocoustic Posted April 25, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 25, 2018 All good, my friend. I once had one come in with a 2 1/2" long drywall screw securing a loose neck/body joint. I admit what I did with this one was a bit of a "hack" but it came out as I thought it would. I admire your attitude about treating them all the same. You make a good point there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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