Members user 2112 Posted November 1, 2015 Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 My les Paul WILL NOT STAY IN TUNE FOR ITS LIFE!!!!! It's driving me insane. I put new tuners on it, and it did help. But after 5 minutes of playing it starts to sound a bit off and after 10 minutes it's just done. I have a prs that stays in perfect tune for weeks and I've never had a problem with it. Is this normal for les Paul's, is a prs just a superior design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thatsbunk Posted November 1, 2015 Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 Your nut most likely needs filing. You probably wasted your money changing tuners first. Made this mistake years ago when I had a Paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 1, 2015 Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 Does it go sharp or flat? All strings or just one? Have you changed strings? What kind and gauge of strings do you use? Are the nut slots cut to fit the gauge string you are using? How do you wrap the strings on your tuners (any sort of locking wrap)? What kind of tuners did it have? What did you put on it? (Some tuners, namely Grovers, the little screw that holds the knob on also preloads the gears - if the screws are loose the tuner post can slip). Are the tuners bushed - if so are the bushings set well into the headstock? What kind of tail piece do you have? If its a stop tailpiece do you wrap over the top or straight through? How much break angle do you have? How far is the bridge and tailpiece screwed out of the top? Do you keep your guitar in a case or on a stand? Is there temperature and/or humidity swings in the environment where your guitar is stored? Do you make an effort to control the humidity? Is the neck pocket damaged (do you see any cracks around the heel)? Short answer to your last question - it is not normal for a LP and I don't happen to think the new PRS bridge/tailpiece is a superior design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 What Mr Freeman said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 It's a real balancing act to get the nut slots falling away, but not too fast. If the slot is too steep it digs into the windings of the string after bends, like a ratchet. Too shallow and your open strings are weak and even flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 I usually find that an application of Big Bends Nut Sauce cures most of my "stay in tune" issues. It basically appears to be a bit of petroleum jelly (?). I usually figure that a bit of that and a bit of "breaking in the nut" and most issues will cure themselves. I also tune then play and tune up a bit again. Most folks realize that tuning down doesn't work well since there's some slack in the tension behind the nut, but the same is a bit true with tuning up, but the reverse, i.e. there will be a bit of extra tension behind the nut. So a bit of pick action will often help the string find it's equilibrium on both sides of the nut. Again, something that works a bit better with a bit o lube. It's the simplest thing to try first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 Freeman has already covered what you might be experiencing. You may have humidity issues (which I doubt), You may simply not be giving your strings enough break in time, your guitar may need a setup, you may need to find a different way to string it, your guitar may have structural issues, etc. One quick thing to try is a bit of graphite (from an ordinary pencil) in the nut slots. If that cures the problem, thatsbunk and GAS man are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members user 2112 Posted November 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 I use Dunlop heavycore strings. The gauges are 12-54. I also wrap the strings around the tailpiece (they seem to respond better to note bending) and I do have the action somewhat high. But I have the same strings with the same height on my prs, the only difference is it's a wraparound. The g string is really dull though. Speaking of dull strings, I have an old starforce I finished rebuilding, and the strings sound so flat they don't ring at all! Its like I'm Palm muting every note. It really irritates me because I just made 3 birds eye maple pickups for it and I want to know their TRUE tone. Wtf is wrong with my guitars?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 I use Dunlop heavycore strings. The gauges are 12-54. . . . Those are usually used for drop tuning and 12-54 is pretty heavy for an electric in Standard. For example, I use d'Addario 10-46's. If you're using Standard tuning, you might want to try a set or regular strings. That would be my first course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 PRS guitars have a more consistent neck angle than Gibsons. Gibsons can fluctuate wildly particularly on their more pedestrian lines. Aside from that Gibson uses Kluson style tuners (tulips) to abide by tradition. Why people love the look of those plastic greenish stick tuners is beyond me but I've found better tuners on several budget brands. Yes, I have come across Gibsons with tuning instability. If it sounds like I'm bashing Gibson, I probably am, but I do love my Les Paul Custom Lite which came stock with Grover tuners. Fabulous sounding and playing guitar. I don't use nutsauce, or graphite or anything else and my tuning is as stable as a Menonite marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 Its not just the nut that can bind, its the bridge saddles that are responsible for allot of binding. Bridge saddles on many Paul's are made of brass (chrome covered brass) Over time the notches in the saddle can grow deeper. The notches should not be very deep. The way Gibson creates the notches is by using a string on top of a new saddle and they tap the string with a hammer to create the notch. Gibson normally notches both the saddles and nut to 10/46 strings from the factory. If you haven't widened both to allow you to use the heavier 12/52 gauge strings the slots are most likely binding on the strings causing your tuning issues. What you should do as a simple fix, is nest time you change your strings, take the strings off then draw them through the nut and saddle slots until the slots feel smooth, polished and no longer bind. Be careful to keep the angle of the string with the headstock when drawing it through, not the fretboard. You don't want to create nut buzz by a spot lower on the fret side. You can also do the same on the saddles. Feel the angle lower on the tail piece side. Afterwards use a little chap stick in the slots and your tuning issues should disappear. A quick test to know if the slots are no longer binding is to plug in the tuner and tune up. Then press the string down between the nut and tuner. The string should go sharp and return pack to perfect pitch. same thing hold true bending the string between the bridge saddle and tail piece. (and of course when you bend the strings normally playing. You can also add one trick I've used for a good 25 years. Put a drop of crazy glue on the ball end of the strings, especially where the winds are. Wipe any excess away with a paper towel and let the glue dry completely. This essentially turns the strings into super bullets and you will no longer have any slippage on that end. On the tuner end, use this method of wrapping the string to lock it off. Bring the string around 1/2 way and wrap it under where the string goes into the tuner then bend it off at a sharp angle tightly. This method of locking the strings off has been around forever and makes all tuners self locking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 Pictures of the bridge, nut, tailpiece, etc would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 I use Dunlop heavycore strings. The gauges are 12-54. I also wrap the strings around the tailpiece (they seem to respond better to note bending) and I do have the action somewhat high. But I have the same strings with the same height on my prs' date=' the only difference is it's a wraparound. The g string is really dull though. Speaking of dull strings, I have an old starforce I finished rebuilding, and the strings sound so flat they don't ring at all! Its like I'm Palm muting every note. It really irritates me because I just made 3 birds eye maple pickups for it and I want to know their TRUE tone. Wtf is wrong with my guitars?![/quote'] The nut slots will be cut for 10-46, if you are going to use strings that heavy you'll need to open the slots. Depending on the material they may bind more than the PRS (which might have larger slots too). They will also put more tension on the neck and probably increase the relief quite a bit (which affects playability but not going out of tune). Obviously high action (and relief) means you stretch the string more which sharpens the note, again that should remain constant and not change over 5 minutes. Wrapping the string up over the stop tailpiece adds more string length behind the bridge - when you bend the string will stretch behind the bridge - it might bind there just like at the nut. There are many things that can cause your strings to go out of tune - I listed many of them in my first reply, you need to carefully evaluate and eliminate each possibility. As far as your Starforce, again, I work better with real information rather than "wtf is wrong with my guitars". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 Go to Lowes or the Home Depot and get a set of welding tip cleaning files. About 4 bucks. Take the file slightly larger than the string, and run it thru the nut slot 2 or 3 times, then add a bit of a pencil tip to it. Do the exact same thing to the saddle. Repeat the process five more times for the various strings. Should fix it. If not.... Look at your tuners. If they are the green Tulip ones, tighten the screws on the back of the headstock. If they are Grovers or the like, tighten the nuts on the headstock then, yep, you guessed it, tighten the screws on the back of the headstock. The wrap around on the tailpiece, might be part of the issue too. Try it standard, and raise the tailpiece if needed. Thye reason I think this is: the windings might move ever so slightly, just enough to throw it out of tune. Has the neck ever been adjusted? Might be out enough to make you use a Vulcan death grip on it, thusly pulling the strings out of tune as you play. Also, check the intonation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 Wtf is wrong with wtf? I thought it was an all comprehensive luthier term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Does it go sharp or flat? All strings or just one? Have you changed strings? What kind and gauge of strings do you use? Are the nut slots cut to fit the gauge string you are using? How do you wrap the strings on your tuners (any sort of locking wrap)? What kind of tuners did it have? What did you put on it? (Some tuners, namely Grovers, the little screw that holds the knob on also preloads the gears - if the screws are loose the tuner post can slip). Are the tuners bushed - if so are the bushings set well into the headstock? What kind of tail piece do you have? If its a stop tailpiece do you wrap over the top or straight through? How much break angle do you have? How far is the bridge and tailpiece screwed out of the top? Do you keep your guitar in a case or on a stand? Is there temperature and/or humidity swings in the environment where your guitar is stored? Do you make an effort to control the humidity? Is the neck pocket damaged (do you see any cracks around the heel)? Short answer to your last question - it is not normal for a LP and I don't happen to think the new PRS bridge/tailpiece is a superior design. This. Your issue could be due to any number of things, as Freeman pointed out. It would be kind of hard for us to diagnose it definitively from afar. You would probably be best off taking your guitar in to a good local luthier or repair person to have it checked out and serviced / set up for your preferred strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 . . . Speaking of dull strings' date=' I have an old starforce I finished rebuilding, and the strings sound so flat they don't ring at all! Its like I'm Palm muting every note. . . .[/quote'] I think you may be confusing terms. Flat means the pitch of the string is lower than it should be. It has nothing to do with the string ringing. That's sustain. If a string doesn't ring, I normally say it sounds "dull," not "flat." If your Les Paul has no sustain, that's a different issue than whether it stays in tune. Which are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tom Mc1 Posted November 2, 2015 Members Share Posted November 2, 2015 I've used 10-52's on my LP for years and the only time I've had tuning issues is when the guitar changes from cold to warm environments. Which reminds me, I haven't played the old girl in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 3, 2015 Members Share Posted November 3, 2015 I think you may be confusing terms. Flat means the pitch of the string is lower than it should be. It has nothing to do with the string ringing. That's sustain. If a string doesn't ring, I normally say it sounds "dull," not "flat." If your Les Paul has no sustain, that's a different issue than whether it stays in tune. Which are you talking about? When I hear "dull strings" I think they aren't shiny. My suggestion is to buy some new bright ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members user 2112 Posted November 3, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2015 Well I got them both fixed. For the les Paul I noticed the nut slots were surprisingly too large. So I filled them with superglue and used old strings to carve them correctly. Then I used the strings to carve the bridge saddles a bit. I threw some new strings on it and now it rings like a bell. And as for the starforce, I just adjusted the saddle angle for more string contact , and switched the strings. Apparently it doesn't get along with fender strings. So now they both work again!! Thanks for all the advice everyone, I appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Whenever I run into a guitar with tuning issues, the nut is always one of the first areas I suspect as a possible culprit. Glad to hear you figured out where the problems were and got them fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 58flame Posted November 7, 2015 Members Share Posted November 7, 2015 Absolutely check the nut first. The comment about PRS neck angles being superior is quesrionable at best. PRS uses as low firction nut, different from Gibson. Apples to oranges. Klusons are probably not the problem. And for the record I've been playing for 30 years and have owned over 50 high end guitars with various tuners. It's usually the nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JTEES4 Posted November 10, 2015 Members Share Posted November 10, 2015 Whenever I run into a guitar with tuning issues' date=' the nut is always one of the first areas I suspect as a possible culprit. Glad to hear you figured out where the problems were and got them fixed! [/quote'] Totally agree!!! Especially on Gibsons. It's almost always the nut slots. I find that the g string slot is often too small on Gibsons, I currently have two and both were like that. And I'm only using 9's right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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