Members blindopher Posted July 6, 2014 Members Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi, Anyone here had good experience with purchasing and installing a ready made 50's harness for a LP? (Like the Mojotone one, for instance). I've got a Heritage Elite 80 with Shaws (which i don't like). Is it true the volume can roll back with little loss of high end, using this wiring? Would it sound different with the Shaws still installed? thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 6, 2014 Members Share Posted July 6, 2014 I have no experience with that harness but you can buy all the parts for a third or less and wire your own. You do need to fish the pup wires and switch wire thru the cavity routes and solder them so I don't know what you gain by buying this. The value of the caps and tone pots affects where they roll off - the overall sound of the pups is determined by the way they are manufactured. Here is a really good tutorial on what the different parts of the circuit do complete with A/B sound clips http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=43053 btw - there are two ways to wire a LP - in the stock configuration if you have the switch in the middle position and turn either volume control all the way off it kills both pups, the alternate wiring allows them to truly be blended (which is what I prefer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 6, 2014 Members Share Posted July 6, 2014 Let me add a couple more thoughts. Standard LP wiring uses 500K potentiometers and 0.022 uF capacitors - this is what is included in the Mojotone kit so if your guitar is wired as normal this won't change a thing. It is fairly common to use 250K pots with single coil pickups but for humbuckers 500K is normal. The Mojotone kit includes something call a "Volume mod cap and resistor" - I don't have a clue what this is but it certainly was not part of normal 50's wiring. One thing that is different about 50's wiring and today is back then ceramic caps did not exist and Gibson used tubular capacitors. Because they had there value indicated by colored bands they were sometimes called "bumble bees" and some people swear that is one of the keys to the 57's sound (along with the original PAF's, of course). From a theoretical standpoint the TYPE of capacitor used shouldn't make any difference (as long as voltage rating is correct and we are talking tiny voltages here) and there have been some double blind tests where people couldn't tell the difference between caps of the same value. However you can buy tubular capacitors from Gibson and other sources and they are really expensive - the only time I would consider something like that is if I was restoring a vintage '57 burst and wanted to keep it as original as possible. Otherwise standard ceramic caps are what everyone uses nowdays. (I am an electrical engineer so I sort of know what I'm talking about). Here is a picture of the cavity in my home made Les Paul clone - the only tricks are clean layout, good shielding and careful soldering with no cold solder joints. btw - it is wired so the pups blend with the switch in the center - that is shown about midway down in this http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Pickups_and_Electronics/Golden_Age_Humbucker_Wiring_Diagrams.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 Here is a diagram comparing 50s to modern wiring. It's just swapping a couple solder points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blindopher Posted July 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 thanx! Valuable information indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 If the Paul already has pickups switching the wiring to give it the 50's tonal options is no big deal. Gibsons already have the highest premium wire installed so I'd stick with that. Swapping some copper wire gains you nothing unless the wiring has been so butchered it has to be replaced. If so you can buy vintage Gibson type wire with the cloth core insulation very cheap. If you need pots, you'll need the long shaft CTS pots which can also be found cheaper by shopping. Buying a harness is nothing but a huge rip off in most cases and you still need to solder it in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blindopher Posted July 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 So I finally opened the back plate on my Heritage Elite 80 LP, and while I don't have a pic quite yet - the scene inside is gruesome. But what I would like to know first and foremost, is what in the nether hell is that metal box inside the cavity which covers the entire harness and is fastened to a hideous metallic template on the bottom with 2 flimsy machine screws that barely reach down? A local luthier told me that's the way it was done back then. (God, I hate the 80's). Can you ascertain that? Was it done to mask RF or something? I have a burning desire to chuck it out the window. Can I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blindopher Posted July 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 Ok, I should've googled it first. Now I know the metal template subs for a ground wire soldered to the pots. But do I have to use the metal BOX which covers the whole thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 I'm not sure what kind of Les Paul you have, but usually you don't need the metal cover. I have an '80 Les Paul and it has the metal can over everything. The good thing about that is it really helps with shielding. Just for fun, here is the cavity of my '52 (Patent Pending Tailpiece) Les Paul. Not exactly the fanciest job, but it's a great sounding guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 Its likely there to add shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 Not my pic, but here is what the Norlin guitars used to have. Worked well. I miss the old days of HCEG when asking about a wire harness would cause certain people to post multiple pictures of their entire guitar collections (again). At any rate, changing from 50s to 'Standard' wiring is very simple. You could add better caps (orange drops, etc...) or use what you have but the 50s wiring mainly refers to the lugs used to solder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blindopher Posted July 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 Great guys! Thanx. Yea, this is the culprit. I removed it and so far no extra noise, RF or nothing, so at this point i'm not sure what Gibson were thinking about back then with the advent of this contraption. Am i correct to assume that with these guitars the strings are completely removed from the circuit, and all components are grounded to the metal template at the bottom of the control cavity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 If you have a Norlin era I can tell you mine has a very thin wire that connects to the bridge volume pot as well as the metal cover. I have heard of variations as well. I like the idea of the cover because it gives you another layer of shielding and also keeps things nice and clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 If the pickup wires are shielded you may not need it. Its likely they came up with that when the guitars had P90s and single wires like a strat. My Gibsons always had shielded wire so none of that was needed. Maybe a Les Paul Recording guitar needed them. Those guitars were loaded with unshielded wires because if all the switches and transformers for low impedance in them. I had to rewire one once and it was a nightmare. My Current Paul has very good shielding and is one of the quietest guitars for hum I have. It does have P100's however and with high gain boxes running in a noisy electric environment, it can still have a little background hum. My thoughts are, if it doesn't make a difference being off or on, there's no reason to remove it to begin with. The guitar is worth more all original and not having the electronics touched. The 50's wiring doesn't do much at all for tone so the old adage, if it ain't broke, leave the thing alone. You take the cover off and a year or so later and its lost. That piece alone may cost you $100 to replace with the inflated cost of parts so just leave it on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted July 7, 2014 Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 They used the cover in the mid 70s/early80s on guitars with humbuckers and shielded wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.