Wiring Gurus - Esquire wiring with a LP or mini 3 way switch?

[PunkKitty]

I'm wondering if this is possible. If so, how do I wire it? I have a single pickup First Act Sheena that I'd like to try this with. It is a single coil pickup.

 

It would be much easier for me to drill a hole than it would be to cut a space for a 3 way lever switch. I'm willing to try that, but I'd rather avoid it if possible.

[inkblot]

A DPDT on-off-on should work fine. I think the no tone pot bright setting would have to be in the middle position on the switch.

[PunkKitty]

A DPDT on-off-on should work fine. I think the no tone pot bright setting would have to be in the middle position on the switch.

But how would I wire that? I've searched for wiring diagrams with no luck.

[vintage clubber]

 

But how would I wire that? I've searched for wiring diagrams with no luck.

 

 

whenever I can't find a diagram for something like this, I contact Emmett Brown (aka Deaf Eddie). He is very responsive and helpful. Give him a shout...

 

http://www.deaf-eddie.net

[PunkKitty]

whenever I can't find a diagram for something like this, I contact Emmett Brown (aka Deaf Eddie). He is very responsive and helpful. Give him a shout... http://www.deaf-eddie.net

Thanks for the tip. I contacted him and bookmarked his site. Good stuff out there.

[PunkKitty]

He is very prompt. I got the following reply this afternoon:

 

No. The Tele/Esquire 3-way has three distinct stops with no shared contacts. The Gibson-style toggle "shares" the middle throw, as does the 3-way mini-toggle.

 

 

So much for that idea.

[headless]

 

He is very prompt. I got the following reply this afternoon: So much for that idea.

 

 

Deaf Eddie is far more knowledgeable than I, but I wonder if there is some way to make this DPDT, on-on-on, switch work (I'm too tired to do a complete analysis of the Esquire wiring):

 

http://classicamplification.net/Pickups/CoilOffsetTestbucker_J-D_truth_table.gif''

[headless]

Okay, I've never worked on an Esquire wiring, but I felt this was a bit of a challenge and gave it a go (which means, it's probably won't work).

 

Here's my scheme, with reference documents.

 

This is the Esquire wiring that I used as my reference (there seem to be several different versions):

 

Here is the contact configuration for a DT/DP, ON-ON-ON- mini toggle switch:

 

Here is a sketch I drew of both the Esquire-type blade switch and the ON-On-ON toggle switch, with their respective contacts (in their 3 different positions) (please ignore the Boobies, on the right):

 

Here's all three diagrams together, with a description of what Esquire components are electrically common, in the three positions of it's selector-switch:

 

And finally, here is my wiring using the DP/DT, ON-ON-ON switch, to achieve the Esquire switching (with the commoned Esquire components listed again, and please note that I've just drawn the ON-ON-ON switch three times--there is only one switch used):

 

Does it work? I have no idea, but if it can be made to work, I think that I've moved the ball forward enough that some one else can finish the play (yeah, I don't know what that means either).

 

In other words, if I've made an error in thinking this out, I hope I've provided enough reference material so that the error(s) can be found and corrected (for instance: I may have reversed the orientation of the Esquire's blade switch).

 

Good luck.

[Deaf Eddie]

Sorry for the terse replies, I'm on vacation. Here's a more detailed reply:

 

Headless's scheme will work as explained and shown in his drawings, BUT, my issue is with the FIRST drawing he's working from - it's a nice drawing, but, that's actually NOT the traditional Esquire Bassy Tone circuit. That drawing shows a simple fixed roll-off mod. The high-end roll-off with the cap value as shown in that drawing probably just sounds like the tone pot rolled back to about "2" - not much new tone with that circuit.

 

THE BAD NEWS:

 

Here's the official Fender Mr. Gearhead drawing for the Esquire with Bassy Tone circuit: '50s Esquire drawing. The Seymour Duncan drawing is a little easier to read: Standard Esquire Wiring.

 

As you can see, the Esquire's Bassy Tone circuit actually has two caps and a resistor that work as a little dividing network, and that circuit can NOT be duplicated with a mini-toggle or Gibson-style toggle switch. You need a two-pole, three-throw switch with independent lugs at each throw - like the traditional lever-style Tele switches.

 

THE GOOD NEWS:

 

However! headless's work can be used to get the Eldred Mod with a 3-way mini-toggle (can be on/ON/on OR on/OFF/on).

 

The Eldred Mod substitutes a single cap for the Bassy Tone's two-caps-and-a-resistor circuit - and, it would be wired just like the drawing that headless used as the basis for his mini-toggle drawings. In the Eldred Mod, the single cap is simply wired between hot and ground as shown above. BUT...

 

What makes the Eldred Mod work is that the cap for the fixed roll-off is a MUCH SMALLER value than the one shown in the drawing that headless used, usually in the range of .005uF - yes, TWO zeros after the decimal point - NOT the .05uF shown in the drawing. The cap commonly used in the Eldred Mod is smaller by one tenth of the value shown in the drawing.

 

The tone achieved by the Eldred Mod has been described as "jazz-box-ish" by some, and as approaching E.C.'s "woman tone" by others.

 

To my ear, as well as the expected roll-off of just the upper high-end, it also seems to produce a slight spike/hump in the mid-range (depending on your pickup), which is certainly a usable tone for the modern guitarist.

 

If you want to try this mod, a cap with the suggested value can be had at RadioShack, part #272-130 - that's two .0047uF caps for a buck fifty (just use one).

 

Back to the mini-toggle: as inkblot sez above, if you use a mini-toggle for this, the "no-tones" throw would be in the center position; throwing the switch one way would connect the tone pot, and the throw the other way connects the Eldred Mod's single cap.

 

There's no need to run the pickup's hot to the mini-toggle as headless's drawing shows, you should instead run the pup's hot straight to the volume pot, and run just a lead/jumper between the switch's common lug and the volume pot. At the volume pot, attach this jumper to the same lug as the pup's hot for "traditional" tone control; or attach it to the "output" lug of the volume pot for a "Gibson '50s style" tone control (less high-end roll-off as you turn down the volume).

 

FWIW, the original Bassy Tone circuit was actually designed to give the guitarist a tone that could be used to double the string bass line in ensemble playing. Remember, the Broadcaster came before the P-Bass.

[headless]

Thank you Deaf Eddie for your reply.

 

I have no experience with Esquires, and I guess it shows. I just grabbed the first diagram that I came across and went from there. I had a feeling that it wouldn't work with the various other Esquire wiring schemes.

 

I'm sure your detailed reply will help the OP.