Members mondaymonkey Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 I got lots of riff I can make up all the time. I just don't know how to incorporate them into a song. They are mostly rhythmic in nature. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ModernSaloon Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yeah that question always perplexed me... riffs want to "stay" in one chord forever, but songs usually want quicker chord changes. A couple of things that I ended up doing: 1) can you have the riff playing and change the chords underneath it? 2) a song will have intro, chorus, verse, maybe a bridge. What part do you want the riff to be? Now, the songs I ended up with were always crap so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 When i take a riff to practice our singer, for the chorus for example will sing a line after we stop playing the riff and match the chords accordingly, it works for us very well, thats how all our songs have come about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 Off the top of my head...listen to more Led Zeppelin...a lot of the time with them, the riff IS the song...check out "The Rover" or "The Wanton Song" or "Immigrant Song" for example.''....It's all down to how creative you can get with weaving complimentary melodies around the riff. With Black Sabbath, Ozzy's vocal melody often just followed the riff almost note for note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kuroyume Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 To me, riffs begin with some melody or progression in the head. They seem to come more naturally if you have a backing track in your head. I've never met a quality riff that was seemingly random (even if it required a bit of time to absorb why it wasn't seemingly random). Jimmy bases many of his riffs around blues scales ("Black Dog" or "Heartbreaker"). Aye, there is a method to the mad geniousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scooter Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 Work out what key the riff is in and that opens it all up for you as for which to chords you can use etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Picklebottom Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 all you have to do is have the drummer do a 30 second drumroll in between the riffs to make it seem exciting and noone will notice that the riffs dont sound good together. theyll just be wondering if theyre going to hear another sweetass drumroll- but dont worry- they will. right after this riff, before the next riff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasco Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 How do you write a song around a riff? I got lots of riff I can make up all the time. I just don't know how to incorporate them into a song. They are mostly rhythmic in nature.Any suggestions? That's a tough question to answer on an internet forum. It's like saying: "I can draw cubes and spheres, so how do I paint a picture?" Let me think about it for a bit and see if I can come up with any decent suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 I would say play the riff as many times as you can hear it in a song... then stop suddenly. Now ask yourself where is the next note? Is it higher? or Lower? Is it a chord ... another riff? Listen to your mind and experiment with different options. The good news is you have no problems coming up with riffs! Thats the hard part. What if you just considered the next part/section as a really slow riff? Write out the next riff in your mind then turn each note into a chord and make it last a bar, 2 bars, half a bar. Mess around, experiment. That's the fun. Some times I think of the emotion I want to deliver. Is it a sad song (minor chords sound sad, slow changes) and angry song (fast furious notes and dissonant angry chords) whatever the vibe is there is a way to create and emotion into a musical abstract. Maybe the song starts sad and reflective and ends up pissed. Well if so that emotion map acts as a guide for what the next part needs. There are a million ways to skin that cat as Jasco said. Tough to answer. Just remember ear first - theory after. My 2 cents I hope it helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members [Animals2] Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 Its called Riff Rock... Look into it Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonPhillips Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 Listen to AC/DC. If you can. They've made a career out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mondaymonkey Posted July 17, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 17, 2009 I've been listening to a bunch of led zep. Your right, most of the songs are based around riffs. The most notable to me is "Black Dog". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted July 17, 2009 Members Share Posted July 17, 2009 I don't imagine too many songwriters would give up their setups and hooks. Generally you treat the riff as your main theme or motif to which you apply the standard principles of song writing and/or composition in general. That craft takes as much work as a medical degree. Most players just roll tape and start jamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Songwriter Posted July 17, 2009 Members Share Posted July 17, 2009 If you're asking how do you take a riff and then develop it into a song by adding other parts, you could try adding or subtracting bits from the riff, coming up with variations, or listening out for words or phrases that the riff is suggesting. Finding out the underlying rhythm of the riff and playing along to that can also be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hshaitan Posted July 17, 2009 Members Share Posted July 17, 2009 Often, if I have a bunch of riffs but no whole song to make out of them I combine them into the same song. Write little transitions for them and string them all together... Opeth does stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blingdogg Posted July 17, 2009 Members Share Posted July 17, 2009 I have this same problem too. Like others said, Led Zeppelin is a good example to follow. I'm listening to Led Zeppelin's "The Rover" right now. It's a good example of a song based heavily on a riff, but then switches to chord changes when Plant sings the hook. So it's a mix of riffs and chords, and works even though the chord changes isn't based entirely on the riff notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members [Animals2] Posted July 17, 2009 Members Share Posted July 17, 2009 Queens of the Stone Age Whether you like em or not, these guys know how to write and riff and drive it into the ground. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members emcrae Posted July 18, 2009 Members Share Posted July 18, 2009 Just my two cents here. I write a pretty good bit. And, from what I read and hear from other writers, I do it backwards. I always start with a riff or a melody first. I'll just get something in my head like that and then work around it. Basically the same as what you are saying. But I'll always work most of out in my head, and then put it to the guitar and then build the lyrics around it. First, start with the key. Second, analyse your riff and get a feel for its initial vibe, beat, and rhythym. Then build a chord progression around that beat. Decide if your riff is going to be an opening riff, and interchange riff, or a lead or solo riff and incorporate it into the song accordingly. By "interchange", I'm referring to a transition riff that you might find between a verse and chorus as one changes to the other. Once you have your initial rhythm, beat, and chord progression worked out......you can then throw your riff back in and either build on it or subtract from it depending on need and where you decide to use it. From there, match your lyrics to the beat and rhythym of the new chord progression you've just composed, and VIOLA....you're done. Nothing left to do from there but pick up the recording contract and live off the royalties! LOL At any rate, I'm sure tons will disagree with me on this because it is technically the backwards way to write a song but I was never able to start with lyrics first and then match music to them. Always had to start with the music, and then add the lyrics. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arteg Posted September 26, 2015 Members Share Posted September 26, 2015 Very interesting question! I think that much easier is to start with a melody of a song not with a guitar riff. But if you have a good riff, which is very catchy, then my suggestion would be -the melody of the 1st verse after that riff should be very static with one, maybe 2 chords, not more. As an example: Smoke on the water, Satisfaction etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted September 27, 2015 Members Share Posted September 27, 2015 Riffs are so 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Patifacy Posted November 30, 2020 Members Share Posted November 30, 2020 This topic has been around for so many years, but the problem remains the same. For me, writing a song around a riff is just as difficult. And in general it is difficult for me to write anything, I hope I will be able to correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted November 30, 2020 Members Share Posted November 30, 2020 On 9/26/2015 at 10:12 AM, arteg said: Very interesting question! I think that much easier is to start with a melody of a song not with a guitar riff. But if you have a good riff, which is very catchy, then my suggestion would be -the melody of the 1st verse after that riff should be very static with one, maybe 2 chords, not more. As an example: Smoke on the water, Satisfaction etc I start usually with the lyrics of what I want to say. Grab my guitar and start stummin. Even Elton had a lyricist. When you write try not to worry to much about all the details and the end product. Just write Riffing is difficult to lyrics unless there's a few folks working on a tune or you do it with a lopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted December 1, 2020 Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 The thing with writing is there is absolutely no 'way' that works every time. There is truly no process as everything I have ever been a part of has a different birthing process. Not much help I know lol! Something I have tried with decent success when the songs starts with a riff is: Record the riff played in time for as many repeats as seems 'right'. Record it to a metronome or drum pattern. Then after you play the riff leave a bar of empty space with only the metronome or the drum pattern. Loop the whole thing a bunch of times. Then listen back and ask yourself - what would you expect would come next? What are you hearing in the blank spot? Then grab a guitar and try to insert the next section. This usually gets me moving. Another thing when I am really stuck, is I do the above process to failure... Then I hit YouTube or Spotify and just click on some random songs to hear some different approaches. I never intentionally copy something - that's not what I am sating, the goal here is to just get out of my own head and clear the pipes by listening to how other people have handled it. 9 times out of 10 this approach gets me back moving again. Try it and let me know how you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Patifacy Posted December 1, 2020 Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 I just thought that if it's hard for me to write a song, then maybe I should start by just writing essays? And the more I write them, the better my skills will be. Or I can turn to professionals to use their essays as role models. I plan to work on it and improve my writing skills because I want to write cool songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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