Help Me with MIDI

[MesaMonster]

I just recently purchased a Hughs and Kettner Grand Meister 36 and a Boss MS-3. The amp is fully MIDI capable and the Boss MS-3 can control MIDI devices. What I would like to do is use the MS-3 to control the amp such as channel switching, effects switching and power settings. I also want to use my TC Electronic Nova drive to be controlled by the MS-3. I bought a multiple MIDI out to control both items. This is where my education stops. I need help with the rest. I understand the MIDI ins and outs and thru. I somewhat understand MIDI channels. I am very fuzzy on CCs and PCs. Thx.

[Axisplayer]

You could write a book explaining MIDI, and some folks have. However, you can find sites to help you learn. Here is a basic primer from Yamaha. https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/314193/midi_basics_en_v10a.pdf

[WRGKMC]

There are several challenges getting the two devices to communicate with each other. The first thing you'll need to do is get a compatible cable which will connect the two together. The amp uses older 5 pin Din plugs and the

 

Page 12 in the Boss manual tells you how to turn the midi function on but it obviously cant tell you how to assign specific midi communication through channels to connect to another manufacturers piece of gear. You may get lucky and the defaults of both just happen to work together but its more likely you'll need to figure out what data is being sent on each channel and assign channels to communicate with each other so when you push a button it connects to the other device to do what you tell it to.

 

That's where the complexity comes in. You can have 16 channels a manufacturer can choose to send control data. Its like a mixing board with 16 different mics and you have no idea which mic is connected to each channel. That's tough enough. You have to understand the kinds of signals being sent through each channel so you can manually connect them to the devices at each end.

 

On top of that you may not have all the same connections at each end and wind up with only partial functionality or odd connection functions that make one device work in illogical ways. Each device has built in logic and communications which may need to be assigned to perform customized tasks.

 

The midi settings for the amp begin on page 14 in the ketter manual. It walks you through turning it on and it says it has auto learn mode. You have to turn both the pedal and the amps midi communication on for them to talk to each other. Looks like it has loop, Reverb, and power settings can be switched via midi. I'm pretty sure channel 1 is common with foot switching. You may luck out where both communicate on the same channel and the auto learn function on the Ketter connects things properly for you. Otherwise you have to learn what's being sent over the channels and manually connect them properly.

[Phil O'Keefe]

If you're brand new to the world of MIDI, I think the best thing you can do is to try to get a good general overview on MIDI first, before trying to get things working and communicating with each other.

 

If you don't object to books, the best one on the subject that I've ever read is MIDI For Musicians by Craig Anderton. It makes a fairly complex subject very easy to understand.

 

 

[MesaMonster]

Thank you Phil. I was looking at the MIDI implementation chart for the amp and noticed that all 16 channels are used. How can I control my Nova drive if that is the case.

[r0bo01]

you'll have to use the "thru" (or "out") midi on one of the two. shooting from the hip, i'd say ms-3 -> nova -> h&k (via nova's thru or out).

just keep track of the ms-3's channel usages controlling your nova and your amp so that they don't overlap (unless you want them to).

you could also set up nova presets that send midi cc's out. in this case, use midi out instead of thru. i don't think the h&k can input more than one midi source on its own though, so it's a one or the other situation.

i'm just speculating here, so feel free to ignore...

 

edit: midi ps's to change channels, cc's to "change the parameters of every single editing function of the amp".

so i'll shut up now.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Thank you Phil. I was looking at the MIDI implementation chart for the amp and noticed that all 16 channels are used. How can I control my Nova drive if that is the case.

 

I'm going to steal one of Craig's analogies from the book I mentioned.

 

Think of a MIDI device as being somewhat like a TV.

 

Like a TV, it's receiving multiple signals on multiple channels at the "antenna" (or MIDI input) at once... but it is only "tuned in" and responding to one of those channels. Just like your TV, your device can be told to monitor say, Channel 5, and ignore everything else that's coming in on other channels and hitting the antenna (or coming in on the MIDI cable) and just respond to that one channel.

 

The analogy can be taken even further - just as some TVs can "listen to" two channels or more at once (picture within a picture), so can some MIDI devices. For example, a multitimbral synth might be set up to listen to multiple MIDI channels, playing the bass part using MIDI channel 2, and a piano part using MIDI channel 1, and a drum part using MIDI channel 10. But now we're starting to get ahead of ourselves and get into more advanced applications... the important thing to remember is that when you want two devices to communicate, they should both be set to the same MIDI channel.

[Phil O'Keefe]

How are you coming along with your MIDI stuff?

[MesaMonster]

I got some of it working. I was able to create a patch turn on a clean channel, the second patch would turn on the boost. Turning the boost on works but when I switch the patch back, the boost does not turn off. The has been a struggle since I dont fully understand how MIDI works and how the MS-3 is using it.To make it more confusing, I can also use CC messages. Whew! Thanks for checking in on me Phil.

[r0bo01]

prolly a dumb question, but do you turn boost off in your "clean" patch?

[MesaMonster]

It was kind of an example. But, I might play a song on the clean patch then kick in the boost for the lead break and then turn it off after. I figured that I would setup two patches, one without boost and one with. Is that the right approach. I suppose I could always use the boost in the MS-3 or use an external footswitch to turn on the boost through the MS-3.

 

[r0bo01]

hmmm. boss's blurb talks about "memory" vs "manual" modes and it looks like "manual" is a stomp box type of situation, but nothing's said about midi (so you could change the amp channel).

looks like 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other, whether you want to press patch switches for each variation (using ms-3's boost?), or one clean patch and an f/s to turn an external boost on or off.

their videos conveniently skirt the meat of midi...

it sounds like you're pretty much there, though. hopefully, one of those choices works for you.

[Phil O'Keefe]

^^^ Yup.

[Etienne Rambert]

I just recently purchased a Hughs and Kettner Grand Meister 36 and a Boss MS-3. The amp is fully MIDI capable and the Boss MS-3 can control MIDI devices. What I would like to do is use the MS-3 to control the amp such as channel switching' date=' effects switching and power settings. I also want to use my TC Electronic Nova drive to be controlled by the MS-3. I bought a multiple MIDI out to control both items. This is where my education stops. I need help with the rest. I understand the MIDI ins and outs and thru. I somewhat understand MIDI channels. I am very fuzzy on CCs and PCs. Thx.[/quote']

 

Paragraph 2 of WRGKMC's post nails it.

 

My Q&D summary is to hook 'em up and see what happens. Think of maps. Each MIDI compatible device has its own map. The maps for any two devices are likely to be different.

 

It is trial and error that allows you to navigate those maps. MIDI cc's should line up the same for every device, as they are standardized. But exactly how you transmit and receive the controllers can vary on each device.

 

Here is the list.

 

http://nickfever.com/music/midi-cc-list

 

Hook 'em up and see what happens. Work from there.