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can a single 8" high quality guitar speaker "move air" or not?

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  • #31
    But are the distorted or overdriven tones from such amps considered "natural" and not from a built in effect in the amp? I'm assuming everything really is an effect, right? But for the sake of argument, let's just say without the assistance of external pedals. In my case, I have the Peavey Rage 258. Its got really good distortion even without the assistance of a distortion pedal, but this distortion I would think is nothing more than a built in effect that can be controlled by twisting the knobs, just not in pedal form.

    I'm also curious if using a solid state bass amp head (Peavey Minimax) to power up a cab "meant" for tube amps, say a Fender Bassbreaker, to use a guitar/synth with (BOSSY SY-300), could this setup work? Does a boost pedal like the Whirlwind "The Bomb" be of benefit, despite the setup isn't exactly 100% tube but more like a "hybrid" of sort lol.

    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

    Yes.



    Some amps do have the ability to produce distorted or overdriven tones without any assistance from pedals - that includes both tube and solid state amps. You can generally get even "more" dirt from them with a boost pedal slamming the input of the amp harder, but that generally works best with tube amps and not solid state amps.
    https://www.rakuten.com/r/CHICHI1336...edium=raf_link

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    • #32
      Originally posted by samal50 View Post

      Which specific Quilter amp? All of them? including the one with 6" speakers or what?
      I have the Aviator head...but their technology is in all their amps. If you go with the small speaker models, there is also a direct out XLR jack so you can go to the board. I'm in the process of modding a 1x12 8ohm 120W cabinet to use with the Aviator head, may even make it into a combo amp down the road when I build a higher quality cabinet from birch ply
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      • #33
        Originally posted by samal50 View Post
        But are the distorted or overdriven tones from such amps considered "natural" and not from a built in effect in the amp? I'm assuming everything really is an effect, right? But for the sake of argument, let's just say without the assistance of external pedals. In my case, I have the Peavey Rage 258. Its got really good distortion even without the assistance of a distortion pedal, but this distortion I would think is nothing more than a built in effect that can be controlled by twisting the knobs, just not in pedal form.
        The Peavey Rage is a solid-state amp through and through; there's very little difference between its onboard "distortion" and a distortion circuit mounted in a pedal. Both are going to clip the waveform (your guitar's signal) and thus cause it to sound distorted.

        Tube amps also clip the waveform when they're driven beyond their design parameters (their clean amplification capabilities) but the onset of distortion tends to be more gradual, and is input-level dependent - which is why a boost pedal can push a tube amp into overdrive. Some tube amps are designed with an over-abundance of input gain in their preamps, which allows them to produce overdriven / distorted tones without any outside assistance. They're producing their distortion in a different way than a solid state amp or pedal does, but the end results are sonically similar.

        There's also power amp distortion, which is something cranked-up low-wattage tube amps excel at, but that solid state amps don't really "do."

        I'm also curious if using a solid state bass amp head (Peavey Minimax) to power up a cab "meant" for tube amps, say a Fender Bassbreaker, to use a guitar/synth with (BOSSY SY-300), could this setup work? Does a boost pedal like the Whirlwind "The Bomb" be of benefit, despite the setup isn't exactly 100% tube but more like a "hybrid" of sort lol.
        The speaker cabinet can be a contributor to an overdriven / distorted sound, but that really depends on the speakers themselves. Some speakers start to break up "early" - with relative low power levels hitting them - while others tend to stay clean, nearly all the way up to their maximum rated power handling levels. Whether you hit them with a solid state or tube power amp doesn't really make a difference on speaker breakup. The boost pedal isn't really going to have much of an effect on the power amp; you might get a bit more volume when you engage the boost, depending on how you have everything gain-staged, but generally it's going to hit the preamp harder, and cause it to distort. That distortion will generally be more pleasing if the amp uses a tube preamp, and less so if it's a solid state preamp.
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        • #34
          Originally posted by daddymack View Post

          Obviously our experiences are very different. My V65R was in and out of the shop, due mainly to the circuit board's fragility, or maybe bad soldering, solder joints were the failures nearly every time. The amp apparently did not like being moved and bounced around in a car trunk...it was just too finicky for my workload. I was playing five nights a week, all over L.A. and Ventura counties, with three different bands back then, and after the fourth failure, I bought a Blues Junior and never looked back. I really liked the sound and weight of the V65R, but with the schedule I had to keep, it was not practical for me. I never ran an extension on it, and I had replaced the reverb tank [since repurposed] right before I retired it.

          I will gladly send you the chassis, minus the tube [repurposed] if you will pay shipping and handling
          Yea, Maybe the fact it was a combo you had more issues. The vibrations of the speaker combined with an original solder job that wasn't so hot.
          My 100W is a head so its likely protected from the vibrations. There again, I've abused the crap out of the two 15 waters I have. Hauled them around, cranked the hell out of them. One is a Valvestate and one is a newer MG. Neither have tubes so there's less circuitry there. The Reverb tank in the Valvestate hasn't held up very good. The tank is built into the chassis frame and I barely get any reverb out of it, probably from getting banged around in transport. The 8" speakers in those little amps aren't so hot either.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by samal50 View Post
            But are the distorted or overdriven tones from such amps considered "natural" and not from a built in effect in the amp? I'm assuming everything really is an effect, right? But for the sake of argument, let's just say without the assistance of external pedals. In my case, I have the Peavey Rage 258. Its got really good distortion even without the assistance of a distortion pedal, but this distortion I would think is nothing more than a built in effect that can be controlled by twisting the knobs, just not in pedal form.

            I'm also curious if using a solid state bass amp head (Peavey Minimax) to power up a cab "meant" for tube amps, say a Fender Bassbreaker, to use a guitar/synth with (BOSSY SY-300), could this setup work? Does a boost pedal like the Whirlwind "The Bomb" be of benefit, despite the setup isn't exactly 100% tube but more like a "hybrid" of sort lol.


            Natural. There's nothing natural about distortion. In fact amps prior to the 60's were all pretty much designed to produce the cleanest tones possible. Then one guy decided to crank the crap out of an amp and record it. Shortly after someone heard it and built the first Fuzz pedals saying they produced a reed/sax type tone and from thee on its been a never ending quest for different types of drive tones. Prior to that you had players doing jazz, Country, rockabilly, Blues etc which were all done with really clean tones. Drive was an unwanted side effect.

            Even all the early Fender amps, they didn't have distortion as a wanted effect they had distortion due to cost and quality factors. What happened is allot of players started pushing amps beyond their capability and peoples ears got accustomed to the hot overdriven sound. Anyone born during or after the 60's pretty much took distortion for granted and probably didn't realize it was the result of abusing an amp. Came with risks in the early days too. certain amps like the early Vox weren't built to be driven hard and often blew up in flames.

            I owned one of the original Moserite amps that had a built in Fuzzrite distortion. The drive channels built into many amps are basically drive boxes built in, with some variations added. Many newer amps have gotten much more sophisticated and can have all kinds of amp modeling which includes different head types and cab sections. The speakers used in some of the Newer amps are full range speakers with a much flatter Hi Fi like response and all the mids and coloration come from the circuitry.

            Older amps that have built in drive can be all over the map for quality. The oldest I currently own is probably my 1976 Sunn Concert Lead head. Its drive channel gets that drive tone Leslie West made famous overdriving a PA head at a recording session when his guitar amp blew up so he used a PA head instead, then used a channel volume to overdrive the power amp. Sunn added overdrive in later amps to get that Mississippi Queen sound from them. Sounds like garbage by todays standards. I have a Peavey Studio One amp with a distortion channel which is awful too. Maybe when the amp came out you could get some tones that sounded contemporary, but by todays standards its pretty bad. Same thing with A Fender M-80 head I have. The drive is one of the worst I've heard from a Fender amp.

            On the other hand, the Blackface SS amps they came out right after those Red Knob series were one of the best SS drives going at that time. Very tube like in tone. Then they botched it adding Ice Pick tones to one of their earlier modeling amps in the mid 2000's only to fix the problems with their Mustang series. For some reason Fender has a really hard time getting and keeping a good formula for their SS amps. Marshall, Vox, others nail their tube counterparts extremely well. Fender, which pretty durable over all, seem to miss the mark more often then they nail it.

            As far as bass amps go, often times they can sound pretty decent for clean rhythm or jazz guitar, but given the heavy duty speakers and circuits you wont get much drive from them unless you have one of the oddballs with Fuzz built in. (or use separate drive pedals). Some of the vintage Bass amps, like the Bassman were actually favored by guitarists as loud clean amps. You'll likely find most SS bass amps have EQ's contoured for bass guitar strings, not guitar strings.

            The speakers often roll off at much of the high frequencies too. A typical guitar speaker will produce tones over 5Khz. A Bass speaker may be real strong on bass frequencies and produce very little over 3Khz. What highs they can produce may sound sterile and suffer from poor dynamic touch response or even have intermodulation distortion simply because the cone paper is extra heavy duty. What makes a bass guitar sound good is a tuned cab which takes advantage of the speaker resonance. Regular Guitar is mostly midrange and rolls those lows off. having too much Bass guitar resonance will interfere with a bass player and can even wind up being masked by a Bass player with a decent rig. each player in a band has to work within his own frequency ranges or risk being masked by others.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mikeo View Post
              Still made, but they are like a grand.



              These are not, but you can find one for like 4-5 hundred.

              I did a lot of recording - including bass - with a silverface Fender Champ. I cooked the original speaker and found an old Jensen 8" alnico radio speaker that just happened to be 3.6 Ohms and it sounded great for many years.



              Last edited by onelife; 05-15-2019, 10:44 PM.
              The human species is an outcrop of this planet. The damage we do to this planet, we do to ourselves. It is in the hands of this generation to turn this disastrous situation around. ~Sadhguru

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